Lifter rise at TDC
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Re: Lifter rise at TDC
They don't because they want you to degree the cam in based on using the .050" lifter rise events method.
Why?
1. you can check and know you got the camshaft you ordered.
2. You can check and know in degrees if its out of time and by how much and by how many Degrees +/- you then need to adjust it. It is your most accurate method to check and move it as required, when you are installing your camshaft in your engine.
Barring owning a 6 foot diameter cam degreeing wheel if you can get it dialed in withing ½ degree ± you did a great job.
Why?
1. you can check and know you got the camshaft you ordered.
2. You can check and know in degrees if its out of time and by how much and by how many Degrees +/- you then need to adjust it. It is your most accurate method to check and move it as required, when you are installing your camshaft in your engine.
Barring owning a 6 foot diameter cam degreeing wheel if you can get it dialed in withing ½ degree ± you did a great job.
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Re: Lifter rise at TDC
Erik Bolander has always answered any questions i have at Howards since moving there from Erson.is that who you talked to?
Re: Lifter rise at TDC
There are a number of digital sensors and displays out now that obviate the need for a huge degree wheel.
On Porsches, a popular one is the Stomski Racing DigiDix digital degree wheel (although you can buy a generic rotary sensor and display for less than $100). They're accurate to within a tenth of a degree. The one that I use came with a 3D printed adapter that bolts to the crankshaft at the flywheel side.
It really makes cam timing (and checking P-to-V clearance, and accurately finding TDC) a simple, no brainer task.
On Porsches, a popular one is the Stomski Racing DigiDix digital degree wheel (although you can buy a generic rotary sensor and display for less than $100). They're accurate to within a tenth of a degree. The one that I use came with a 3D printed adapter that bolts to the crankshaft at the flywheel side.
It really makes cam timing (and checking P-to-V clearance, and accurately finding TDC) a simple, no brainer task.
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Re: Lifter rise at TDC
Sometimes, when installing a camshaft in an already built engine ... you just have to install that camshaft degreed wherever it fits because valve to piston is the determining factor.F-BIRD'88 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:24 am They don't because they want you to degree the cam in based on using the .050" lifter rise events method.
Why?
1. you can check and know you got the camshaft you ordered.
2. You can check and know in degrees if its out of time and by how much and by how many Degrees +/- you then need to adjust it. It is your most accurate method to check and move it as required, when you are installing your camshaft in your engine.
Barring owning a 6 foot diameter cam degreeing wheel if you can get it dialed in withing ½ degree ± you did a great job.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
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Re: Lifter rise at TDC
I think a bunch of grinders out there are hoping no one measures all the lobes eitherIn-Tech wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:42 pmOy vey can you read? I will re-state...what if the cam card was written WRONG straight from the guys who made it???? 99% of all cam cards are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!F-BIRD'88 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:52 pm You need to use the .050" lifter rise events as stated on the cam card to dial in your cam. On MANY cams this is expressed as if "straight up" cam phasing and it is thus UP TO YOU to then (check and) phase the camshaft ± to get it in the right-best installed position. "advance". (or retard)
Your cam grinder can advise, how much, if you need help.
As a default most cams for the popular legacy pushrod V8's most of us deal with run best overall with a bit of "advance" dialed in. 4° to 6° is typical. But do not assume your cam was ground with this dialed in already.
If you want it installed correctly use the .050" lifter rise events method.
-Bob
Re: Lifter rise at TDC
True trueWalter R. Malik wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:39 amSometimes, when installing a camshaft in an already built engine ... you just have to install that camshaft degreed wherever it fits because valve to piston is the determining factor.F-BIRD'88 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:24 am They don't because they want you to degree the cam in based on using the .050" lifter rise events method.
Why?
1. you can check and know you got the camshaft you ordered.
2. You can check and know in degrees if its out of time and by how much and by how many Degrees +/- you then need to adjust it. It is your most accurate method to check and move it as required, when you are installing your camshaft in your engine.
Barring owning a 6 foot diameter cam degreeing wheel if you can get it dialed in withing ½ degree ± you did a great job.
A Big Block chev with factory dome pistons is an example.
I believe the Modern EFI Dodge Hemi is another.
Re: Lifter rise at TDC
I agree. Howards is normally great with customer service.engineman1642 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:31 am Erik Bolander has always answered any questions i have at Howards since moving there from Erson.is that who you talked to?
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
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Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Re: Lifter rise at TDC
I won't knock Howards. I wanted the LS3 cam ground on 113 and it's a catalog item for them so it was a pick of convenience. I e mailed them but got know where. No big deal. Just a simple ask. I like math so if there was a formula to determine this, I'd like to give it a go. It doesn't exist so were good. The C.O.M.E. video was very enlightening. I had never seen someone check a cam that way before. I think it's brilliant. If I were a cam grinder, I would furnish that info. It takes into account the cam drive. I like it. Thanks everyone for your comments. Cheers
Re: Lifter rise at TDC
"Intake lift at TDC" is how air cooled Porsche's were timed since the beginning. Cam specs are given like, "Set @ 5.3mm lift with 0.1mm valve lash." There aren't any timing marks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24AeQcv_JtE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24AeQcv_JtE
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