big block mopar oil pump

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rebelrouser
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big block mopar oil pump

Post by rebelrouser »

I am doing a 383 and a 440 mild performance engine for a cuda and a super bee. Got most of my parts in good time, but the oil pumps never showed up. For many years I always installed a stock high-volume pump, the ones with taller gears. Well, as normal now, none are available anywhere. Lots of standard volume pumps, and they tell me Melling is basically the only company making them. And they just are not making the high-volume version. The salesman being a good salesman I guess tells me high volume mopar pumps just run the stock pans dry anyway. Well, I have been messing with mopars for let's see since 1974, and I just don't think that is true. Big block mopars have a lot of drain back and I have lost count of the big blocks I have built, never blew one up with a high-volume pump. Only blew up two and they both broke rods.
What is your guy's experience?
And talking about just mild engines, my race car for example has a milidon external dual pickup with a 10 quart pan
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by ProPower engines »

rebelrouser wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:06 pm I am doing a 383 and a 440 mild performance engine for a cuda and a super bee. Got most of my parts in good time, but the oil pumps never showed up. For many years I always installed a stock high-volume pump, the ones with taller gears. Well, as normal now, none are available anywhere. Lots of standard volume pumps, and they tell me Melling is basically the only company making them. And they just are not making the high-volume version. The salesman being a good salesman I guess tells me high volume mopar pumps just run the stock pans dry anyway. Well, I have been messing with mopars for let's see since 1974, and I just don't think that is true. Big block mopars have a lot of drain back and I have lost count of the big blocks I have built, never blew one up with a high-volume pump. Only blew up two and they both broke rods.
What is your guy's experience?
And talking about just mild engines, my race car for example has a milidon external dual pickup with a 10 quart pan
I am trying to figure out why you need an HV oil pump.
If you spend time on the block and crank and get the correct clearances needed as well as get the rods in the same ball park then an HV pump is just over kill.
.0025-.0027 on the mains is plenty and .0022-.0023 on the rods will do just fine.
Most guys never line hone their blocks and accept well over .003 main clearance and rods the same thing but its just a waste of oil pressure volume with excess clearances.
If you feel you really need a bit more OP then tweak the bypass on the stock pump a bit. At least you will not be trying to drive a big pump with no good reason and wear out the bushing in the block and the pump drive shaft.

JMO
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rebelrouser
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by rebelrouser »

It is just one of those things I have done for ages, high-volume pump was just a little insurance. I like my main and rod clearances a little loose .003 is where I like them. It just always works. And I did order stock pumps will shim the bypass and call it good.
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by BillK »

rr,
Who are you buying your parts from ? The warehouse I use is showing 20 of them in stock between three locations. M63HV ?
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by rebelrouser »

Summit, Jegs, Rock Auto, Nortnern auto parts, and both local parts stores in town, all say not available. Standard volume is available.
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by allencr267 »

rebelrouser wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:06 pm The salesman being a good salesman I guess...
Well, I have been messing with mopars for let's see since 1974,
I take it the saleswhatever was born after1974?
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by ClassAct »

rebelrouser wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:06 pm I am doing a 383 and a 440 mild performance engine for a cuda and a super bee. Got most of my parts in good time, but the oil pumps never showed up. For many years I always installed a stock high-volume pump, the ones with taller gears. Well, as normal now, none are available anywhere. Lots of standard volume pumps, and they tell me Melling is basically the only company making them. And they just are not making the high-volume version. The salesman being a good salesman I guess tells me high volume mopar pumps just run the stock pans dry anyway. Well, I have been messing with mopars for let's see since 1974, and I just don't think that is true. Big block mopars have a lot of drain back and I have lost count of the big blocks I have built, never blew one up with a high-volume pump. Only blew up two and they both broke rods.
What is your guy's experience?
And talking about just mild engines, my race car for example has a milidon external dual pickup with a 10 quart pan


The salesman is a moron. Unless the pickup is too far off the pan (a stock pickup needs to be touching the floor of the pan) or you have almost no drain back you can’t “suck the pan dry”. It’s impossible. Unless the engine is retaining oil. I’m so sick of hearing that it makes me crazy.

And it’s a Chrysler. They should ALL use a HV pump. It’s not a Chevy.
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by Geoff2 »

You do not need a HV or HP pump for your application.
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by ProPower engines »

rebelrouser wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:58 pm It is just one of those things I have done for ages, high-volume pump was just a little insurance. I like my main and rod clearances a little loose .003 is where I like them. It just always works. And I did order stock pumps will shim the bypass and call it good.
As you say it works but its not the best way to do it for a street/strip deal. It it was using some kind of forced induction then yes you will need some extra but just saying that the rod big ends and the main bearing bores in the block will grow in size when it all heats up.
Yes the shaft will grow some as well.
Just not an ideal way to go is all I am saying. [-X
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by mag2555 »

I really can’t see why with the stroke of the 383 you would need a HV pump!
Even when these are run with wider clearances and up to 7000 rpm it’s been seen that the motors need for oil volume levels off by 5500 rpm.

Volume helps with cooling in fully loaded endurance motors, is this what these two motors are being built for?

Whatever rpm the oil systems bypass opens at is a definitive signal that no additional oil volume for that perticular rpm can be pushed through all the oil feed holes unless additional pressure is added, and peak oil pressure is always seen rpm wise long before oil volume needs peak!
You can cut a man's tongue from his mouth, but that does not mean he’s a liar, it just shows that you fear the truth he might speak about you!
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by BillK »

rebelrouser wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:28 pm Summit, Jegs, Rock Auto, Nortnern auto parts, and both local parts stores in town, all say not available. Standard volume is available.
Are you a shop or just an individual ? Where are you located. PBM Performance shows them in stock but they will only sell to legit machine shops and engine builders. I can have one drop shipped to you if you want ? Send me a PM if you are interested.
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by Diodedog »

One of my NHRA stocker race cars that is parked until I finish the new shortblock, has over 360 documented runs on it. It was mostly a 10.60-10.90 car and goes through the traps between 7,000 and 7,100 rpm depending on the tires and weather. It has a stock uncut 440 crank and stock bearing clearances with a six pak type pan and a stock 361 pump with the hemi spring cut down to give a max of 55 psi at max rpm.
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by rebelrouser »

BillK wrote: Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:44 pm
rebelrouser wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:28 pm Summit, Jegs, Rock Auto, Nortnern auto parts, and both local parts stores in town, all say not available. Standard volume is available.
Are you a shop or just an individual ? Where are you located. PBM Performance shows them in stock but they will only sell to legit machine shops and engine builders. I can have one drop shipped to you if you want ? Send me a PM if you are interested.
Thanks, I do not have an account with PBM. I am semi retired and just build a few engines to have something to do. But thanks, I just ordered the stock pumps for both engines, I was just kind of venting I guess. Seems getting parts is like pulling teeth today.
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by ProPower engines »

You are correct about that my friend.
Those that do this all day every day face challenges in getting parts of any type.
Cam lifters some oil pumps valves bearing sets in specific sizes and the list goes on.

Don't feel bad even the most well connected of us still can't find some parts. #-o #-o
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Re: big block mopar oil pump

Post by Walter R. Malik »

rebelrouser wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:06 pm I am doing a 383 and a 440 mild performance engine for a cuda and a super bee. Got most of my parts in good time, but the oil pumps never showed up. For many years I always installed a stock high-volume pump, the ones with taller gears. Well, as normal now, none are available anywhere. Lots of standard volume pumps, and they tell me Melling is basically the only company making them. And they just are not making the high-volume version. The salesman being a good salesman I guess tells me high volume mopar pumps just run the stock pans dry anyway. Well, I have been messing with mopars for let's see since 1974, and I just don't think that is true. Big block mopars have a lot of drain back and I have lost count of the big blocks I have built, never blew one up with a high-volume pump. Only blew up two and they both broke rods.
What is your guy's experience?
And talking about just mild engines, my race car for example has a milidon external dual pickup with a 10 quart pan
Check with Milodon ... they do offer a pump with a better pumping unit "gerotor" instead of the normal Mopar rotor & scroll design
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