Opinions on removing crank counterweights

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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BCjohnny
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Re: Opinions on removing crank counterweights

Post by BCjohnny »

ELS wrote:...... but I wonder now... how do they get the middle bearing on? did they like cut and weld it? :D
The outer hardened races were split with a one piece crank, much like a shell bearing, in some applications ..... it doesn't take an expert to realise the weakness in such a design

Usually with half caged roller pairs, or worse crowded rollers, running on a hardened crank journal

But .... forget it for what you're doing, a plain shell / hydrodynamic oil film is the way to go
ELS
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Re: Opinions on removing crank counterweights

Post by ELS »

well I was thinking and the only way I'll know for sure is to try it myself, I have a spare engine block that threw a rod, I'll weld up the hole and use that with a spare crank and cut the counterweights off it.
the engine has 5 main bearings so it should have a good chance of surviving, but if it wont, well then I'll know :)

the book I read this in was some old soviet tuning book, called "automotive engine preparations for competitions - Sigurikdi E.G - 1974"
the text in the book said:
the main bearing inner crank diameter is turned down to 35mm, then the inner race of the roller bearing hardness needs to be at least HRC 60-65
loose fit of the bearings is unsuitable, assembly must be caried out after preheating the bearings and cooling the crankshaft.
after assembly the crank needs to be straight within 0.02 - 0.03mm measured from the ends.
the main bearing outer diameter in the block is bored to 80mm, and the connecting rod outer diameter - 72mm
boring the block should be done in one installation on the machine to maintain strict alignment
if properly done the crank should rotate freely, similar to a bycicle wheel, precisely assembled the crank does not need balancing, for checking balance it should be within 3-5g/cm
the roller bearings do not need pressure lubrication but it can be used but you have to drill the bearings for oil to get in with holes of 0.7mm diameter.
the first crankshaft like this was tested on rally "nevsky lights" in january 1971 on an NA engine, everything was fine, except the engine noise increased, which had an unfavorable and clear psychological impact on the riders, however the team got into the top three and the engine was running reliably, on other tracks lower gear ratios were used and the engine speed exceeded 7500-8000rpm for up to 10 seconds. after the rally engine was disassembled and there was only a slight increase in backlash on the con rod bearings, the crankshaft turned out to be quite unsuitable for further use, all together the crankshaft with rolled bearings turned out to be successful.
the crankshaft was made out of 18XHVA steel and weighted 14.5kg, originally 17.8kg, an updated crank was made from titanium alloy VT-3-1 which weighted less than 10.2kg.
to use a titanium crankshaft, roller bearings with an inner race were mandatory.

I guess they call succesful crankshafts ones that barely last one event :lol:
although top fuel dragsters do the same... just with 500x more power :D
SchmidtMotorWorks
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Re: Opinions on removing crank counterweights

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks »

Super bad advice.
Take it from someone that has designed and made many billet cranks for NHRA and NASCAR pro classes.
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ELS
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Re: Opinions on removing crank counterweights

Post by ELS »

Well wait a minute...
The crankshaft experiences huge shear loads anyway, much more than it would ever experience from just centrifugal force.
Think of the force excreted on the crankshaft by combustion...
MAYBE in small load situations the centrifugal loads are higher than the combustion pressure... even that is arguable.

So I don't think it's actually a bad idea to cut off the counterweights on a flat plane crank.
But then the question is... Why does anyone bother with them then? There must be a very good reason.
Resonance perhaps? I've read mentions of crank counterweight weights sometimes being a problem where the crank can resonate badly cause probably bearing chatter... and that increasing the counterweight weight would fix this... Or maybe was it reducing the weight? idk
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