coolant conundrum

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Belgian1979
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coolant conundrum

Post by Belgian1979 »

Went to the shop to buy coolant....coolant for God's sake. I thought this was going to be a simple exercise....a discussion with the shop owner brought to light that all the coolants they sell today (G12/G13) and the like are for newer cars which might not work well with the seals and such used in our old cars. Seemed that stupid old 50/50 ethylene glycol is not a simple exercise anymore :shock:

So, can these newer types be used in our older (Gen 1 SBC) engines?
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by BillK »

Do they no longer have the good old "green" stuff ? My 99 Tahoe has Dexcool in it and it is pretty much a "traditional" type 350 engine. I have never had an issue with it. Other than that I am not sure what to tell you.
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by af2 »

Belgian1979 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:48 pm Went to the shop to buy coolant....coolant for God's sake. I thought this was going to be a simple exercise....a discussion with the shop owner brought to light that all the coolants they sell today (G12/G13) and the like are for newer cars which might not work well with the seals and such used in our old cars. Seemed that stupid old 50/50 ethylene glycol is not a simple exercise anymore :shock:

So, can these newer types be used in our older (Gen 1 SBC) engines?
Use one or the other and not both so it doesn't "gel"
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by rebelyell »

try a different shop or supplier

you should look for this:

https://www.euspares.co.uk/parts/prestone/13109322

I can read the label well enough to understand that Prestone AF inside jug is the very same concentrate I've been using in USA for many decades.
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by rebelrouser »

This is a run down of the basic types of coolant on the market today. Organic acid technology works well but requires that all the air be out of the system, so an older car without a coolant recovery tank this is a no go. As you can see Zerex makes IAT green antifreeze and ut works just fine in older cars. I have used the HOAT Hybrid in older cars that have a recovery tank added to the system, no issues either. If you look inside the water jacket of a newer engine that has had OAT type coolant, it has a coating in the water jacket, that is how it works, it eats into and forms a layer to protect the engine. I wonder why GM had so much trouble with the OAT formulation they used a few years ago, because import cars had already switched to the OAT several years before with no issues.

TYPE INHIBITOR TECHNOLOGY ZEREX COOLANT VEHICLES COLOR
IAT (Inorganic Additive Technology) Silicates Zerex™ Original Older Vehicles
GREEN

OAT (Organic Acid Technology) Organic Acids Zerex™ Dex-Cool® GM, Saab, VW
ORANGE

HOAT (Hybrid OAT) Silicates & Organic Acids Zerex™ G-05™ Ford, Chrysler, European
YELLOW

HOAT (Hybrid OAT, Phosphate-free) NAP Free ZEREX™ G-48 BMW, Volvo, Tesla, Mini, others
TURQUOISE

P-HOAT (Phosphated HOAT) Phosphates & Organic Acids ZEREX™ Asian Vehicle Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai, KIA & other Asian vehicles PINK / BLUE
Si-OAT (Silicated HOAT) Silicates & Organic Acids ZEREX™ G-40 Mercedes-Benz, Audi, VW, Porsche, others
PURPLE
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by Tom68 »

Late 80's I made this water pump cover out of 1/4" aluminum, ran the little Castrol anti corrosion additive tins, maybe a decade and a half later I pulled the pump, maybe it was 60 thou thick now.
20220526_163631.jpg
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by Belgian1979 »

I used the Valvoline max life (which I cannot get anymore) which was red. Don't know what type it is, but it didn't seem to cause issues.

Engine has a alu heads and copper radiator. It would seem that the newer types (G12/G13) are made because of the dissimilar metals in the engines today. Not sure how well they fare with a recovery tank though (although my DD which uses G12++ has a recovery tank as well.

When reading up on the internet (fwiw) it seems to generally conclude that the old coolant types were for engines with iron block and heads and copper radiators. The newer types are intended for engines with alu parts. Seems that the old coolant is corrosive for alu. Not sure how correct that is.

I think this again is one or the other trick of the EU because the old ethylene glycol coolant is considered to be pollutive. :x

Personally I lean towards the G12 red/pink type of stuff.
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by rebelrouser »

Tom68 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:03 am Late 80's I made this water pump cover out of 1/4" aluminum, ran the little Castrol anti corrosion additive tins, maybe a decade and a half later I pulled the pump, maybe it was 60 thou thick now.

20220526_163631.jpg
That looks like maybe electrolysis damage. I almost wrecked my race car one time because of an aluminum thermostat housing that looked like your cover. It blew out a chuck and I ran through the water with the wheels in the air. You can check electrolysis with a DVOM by sticking the positive terminal in the coolant, the negative on battery ground and cranking the engine, any voltage reading over .007, time to start cleaning grounds.
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

Tom68 wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:03 am Late 80's I made this water pump cover out of 1/4" aluminum, ran the little Castrol anti corrosion additive tins, maybe a decade and a half later I pulled the pump, maybe it was 60 thou thick now.

20220526_163631.jpg
This is very much related to a question that I have. How long are these anti-corrosion + water wetter products actually supposed to work for?

The VP Racing water wetter + anti-corrosive additive recommends that you add a new one every 1 year or 30,000 miles, for example. Are they all like this and you're supposed to add more every YEAR?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpr-2085?

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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by GerryP »

NewbVetteGuy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:21 pm ...How long are these anti-corrosion + water wetter products actually supposed to work for?...
It depends upon how the engine is used, but generally around five years. There are two primary additives; One for corrosion protection. You can test coolant using litmus strips and it will tell you the status of the corrosion protection. You can also do this with a DVOM, but that could be less accurate due to things beyond the balance in the coolant. You can look up online how that works, but the test strips are pretty cheap. The second additive is for water pump lubrication. There is no test I am aware of for that additive. That is why you generally look for a five year coolant replacement cycle.

Your link targets one replenisher. There are others, like those used by Ford and Cummins for diesel engines where all you want are the additives and nothing else.
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by ELS »

What about tosol, it isn't called 'antifreeze' on the can, just coolant, it has a light blue color. I know it's usually used for old tractors, where there are small leaks, because it gums up those leaks after a while like water, doesn't start freezing until -40
Is that then the P-HOAT type?
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

GerryP wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 7:03 pm
NewbVetteGuy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 3:21 pm ...How long are these anti-corrosion + water wetter products actually supposed to work for?...
It depends upon how the engine is used, but generally around five years. There are two primary additives; One for corrosion protection. You can test coolant using litmus strips and it will tell you the status of the corrosion protection. You can also do this with a DVOM, but that could be less accurate due to things beyond the balance in the coolant. You can look up online how that works, but the test strips are pretty cheap. The second additive is for water pump lubrication. There is no test I am aware of for that additive. That is why you generally look for a five year coolant replacement cycle.

Your link targets one replenisher. There are others, like those used by Ford and Cummins for diesel engines where all you want are the additives and nothing else.
Wow! So pH of the coolant water mix is an indicator of whether the corrosion inhibitor is working???!

What is the range of values they indicate “working” vs. “not working”?
(My other hobby that receives a lot more of my time is brewing and I have a VERY accurate and calibrated pH meter that I could reuse for this purpose…)


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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by Geoff2 »

If the additive is not pre-mixed, you have to add water. There are many types of water & using the wrong one will cause corrosion. That is why I only use pre-mixed coolant/inhibitor.
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by Tom68 »

Geoff2 wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 3:57 am If the additive is not pre-mixed, you have to add water. There are many types of water & using the wrong one will cause corrosion. That is why I only use pre-mixed coolant/inhibitor.
Me to...... 21st century me that is, learnt my lessons in the 20th century.
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Re: coolant conundrum

Post by GerryP »

NewbVetteGuy wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 11:46 pm .....
Wow! So pH of the coolant water mix is an indicator of whether the corrosion inhibitor is working???!

What is the range of values they indicate “working” vs. “not working”?
(My other hobby that receives a lot more of my time is brewing and I have a VERY accurate and calibrated pH meter that I could reuse for this purpose…)


Adam
Here is just one of many links you will find online by searching "testing coolant with a multimeter": https://www.familyhandyman.com/project/ ... ultimeter/

I don't know of a specific correlation of the observed voltage to pH. I also don't know what the thresholds are for pH.

I also use a coolant refractrometer to know the coolant concentration. Here's an Amazon link to the one I have, but they can easily be found for cheaper: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H ... UTF8&psc=1

And these are the test strips I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0753 ... UTF8&psc=1

Again, I encourage the use of the test strips over the DVOM method.
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