Blow by- bad honing?
Moderator: Team
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
Plenty of good suggestions so far, so ........
Did the ring lands have wear, or more critically taper, when you installed the new rings ?
Nice parallel grooves, snug fit ?
Putting new rings in bad pistons is not as uncommon as some would give credit for ...... especially when you've convinced yourself they'll go again or aren't available ......
Did the ring lands have wear, or more critically taper, when you installed the new rings ?
Nice parallel grooves, snug fit ?
Putting new rings in bad pistons is not as uncommon as some would give credit for ...... especially when you've convinced yourself they'll go again or aren't available ......
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
The reason I asked if it was an automatic. Faulty trans modulator valve sucking fluid into intake manifold causing bluish smoke.?
-
- Guru
- Posts: 1747
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:10 pm
- Location:
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
Close up pictures of the rings' faces ( cylinder side) might be revealing.
Did break-in include several short bursts of heavy throttle at mid revs ?
What is the rings' face materials, manufacturer and part number ?
Did break-in include several short bursts of heavy throttle at mid revs ?
What is the rings' face materials, manufacturer and part number ?
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
As others have stated, make sure you do not have the second rings upside down.
If you try again you can use a flex hone in something more along the order of a 280 Grit and do about 10 strokes forward, then about five strokes backwards. Wash bores out really good & use a wash cloth of some kind with Dawn dish soap & water then after drying clean them with automatic trans fluid or Hoppes No. 9 gun barrel cleaner, then carb cleaner or acetone. Yes the flex hone will leave a good surface finish for most replacement-style rings as long as it is aluminum oxide and not too fine. Furthest I would go is a 320 grit and make sure what you are using is SNUG in the bore. No need to go to a machine shop for what you are trying to do.
You can have lots of ring to groove side clearance and it should not smoke as you are describing.
If you try again you can use a flex hone in something more along the order of a 280 Grit and do about 10 strokes forward, then about five strokes backwards. Wash bores out really good & use a wash cloth of some kind with Dawn dish soap & water then after drying clean them with automatic trans fluid or Hoppes No. 9 gun barrel cleaner, then carb cleaner or acetone. Yes the flex hone will leave a good surface finish for most replacement-style rings as long as it is aluminum oxide and not too fine. Furthest I would go is a 320 grit and make sure what you are using is SNUG in the bore. No need to go to a machine shop for what you are trying to do.
You can have lots of ring to groove side clearance and it should not smoke as you are describing.
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
The .040 pistons in there do not have too many miles on them. I will say that they were quite dirty with carbon. I thoroughly cleaned all ring grooves and oil holes. I didn’t notice any anomalies or deformations.
The second ring is the only ring with a dot and they are all facing up. All ring lands look good.
The only seal that i was able to source was through Rock Auto- Enginetech S0629. I must had purchased the last one as they are now out of stock.
Yes, when i broke in cam, i always do throttle bursts for 30 minutes. It didn’t seem to smoke as bad in the initial start up as it did before i pulled it. In fact, the rear seal didn’t leak until the engine had about an hour on it. I’m actively looking for pistons as i would like to bore this thing .060.
I really appreciate the replies. If i cannot locate pistons, I’ll definitely do a thorough honing and see what happens.
The second ring is the only ring with a dot and they are all facing up. All ring lands look good.
The only seal that i was able to source was through Rock Auto- Enginetech S0629. I must had purchased the last one as they are now out of stock.
Yes, when i broke in cam, i always do throttle bursts for 30 minutes. It didn’t seem to smoke as bad in the initial start up as it did before i pulled it. In fact, the rear seal didn’t leak until the engine had about an hour on it. I’m actively looking for pistons as i would like to bore this thing .060.
I really appreciate the replies. If i cannot locate pistons, I’ll definitely do a thorough honing and see what happens.
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
I tried to attach photo of cylinders.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
- Pro
- Posts: 365
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:28 pm
- Location: Tallahassee Florida USofA
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
Dan Timberlake wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:27 pm Did break-in include several short bursts of heavy throttle at mid revs ?
Under load, right??Yes, when i broke in cam, i always do throttle bursts for 30 minutes.
Also,
No scrapes, scars, scratches or burrs, lands just a nice flat smooth surface, perpendicular to the wall? Cleaning carbon with old rings has F'd a lotta pistons, when that carbon doesn't really have to be removed unless it doesn't let the ring fit into the cylinder....cleaned all ring grooves and oil holes. I didn’t notice any anomalies or deformations.
-
- Expert
- Posts: 793
- Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:24 pm
- Location:
- Contact:
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
Put only oil rings on a piston and check how much force it takes to move in bore
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
That's not really honed, have you measured the bores ?
You need it machine honed, but only if your pistons can handle the extra clearance.
Rear main leak unlikely to be from crankcase pressure.
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
- Dave Koehler
- Vendor
- Posts: 7207
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:19 pm
- Location: Urbana, IL USA
- Contact:
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
I may have missed it.
Moly or cast top ring?
Type of oil used?
Moly or cast top ring?
Type of oil used?
Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection
Enderle Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Balancing - Nitrous Master software
http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."
Enderle Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Balancing - Nitrous Master software
http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
Cast rings. Not just under load but at idle and when revved. Will try putting just oil rings on to check pressure. Will also re-measure cylinders.
-
- Pro
- Posts: 493
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:23 am
- Location: south africa johannesburg
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
I must apologize and correct myself.chevyfreak wrote: ↑Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:59 am The 194 inline 6 uses same pistons as the 265 v8 from 50s.
Chevyfreak
Sorry for (my) the confusion. The 265 sbc pistons actually matches the 215 inline six that pontiac used. The 194 has a smaller bore, only same comp height.
Chevyfreak.
Bowtie for life
Re: Blow by- bad honing?
" I’m curious if my “quick hone job” is the culprit and would an inadequate hone job cause this much oil to get in the combustion chambers?? Maybe glazed cylinders?? If i could find .060 pistons, i would get it bored and do it right. Should i take it and get it honed at the shop? Any input is much appreciated."
Tom68
"That's not really honed, have you measured the bores ?
You need it machine honed, but only if your pistons can handle the extra clearance."
Tom68 is correct.
Sometimes " a picture is worth a thousand words " and it shows. If your not experienced with running a hone do get a proper deglaze and cross hatch pattern the end result will be a waste of time and money spent.
Take it to reputable machine shop and have everything checked out. Exceptable piston to bore clearance is about .0025" on these motors.
Tom68
"That's not really honed, have you measured the bores ?
You need it machine honed, but only if your pistons can handle the extra clearance."
Tom68 is correct.
Sometimes " a picture is worth a thousand words " and it shows. If your not experienced with running a hone do get a proper deglaze and cross hatch pattern the end result will be a waste of time and money spent.
Take it to reputable machine shop and have everything checked out. Exceptable piston to bore clearance is about .0025" on these motors.