I started playing with TM yesterday and I’m a bit disappointed. For one, you can only test on SBC and SBF stuff. Not even BBC. And like I said, on pump gas up to 12:1 I don’t open the LSA a up on an in-line wedge head. You just kill power below peak torque and I hate that.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:36 pm307 601 10.5CR.png
I reduced CR to 10.5 and i did the calculus based on my new input Peak Power RPM which match the previous DCR. Now the program output 108 LCA, but its also 108hp down
I like all the parameters for 12CR. I dont know is it doable using 305 iron heads, flat top pistons and .43lift roller cam with 196int duration at 050 inch lift.
128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Moderator: Team
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
I think it's important to think in terms of overlap rather than LSA.
We know that the same LSA number could be very different in terms of EVC and IVO.
And I agree 100% with the carb tuning.
This is why I'm comfortable with 72 degrees of seat to seat overlap whereas I know of those that found it unfriendly on the street. That was 288/294 on a 110 (106 ICL).
Kevin
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Yes. It's one of my HR cams.skinny z wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:38 amYour lobes Mike ( I would think yes)?CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:03 am 355" SBC
10:1 with ported 492 heads, Performer RPM, and Holley 600.
RPM---TQ--BHP
3200--436--266
3400--443--287
3600--445--305
3800--444--321
4000--443--337
4200--440--352
4400--440--368
4600--441--386
4800--441--403
5000--432--411
5200--422--418
5400--412--423
5600--400--426
The cam is 216/220, on a 112 LSA, and 108 ICL
Which ones?
.510"/.510" Valve Lift
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
LSA is something you end up with. It's not a parameter you design for.Orr89rocz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:04 amIts almost like the right engine build, with a good induction package will dictate power curve characteristics more so than what lsa you have.CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:03 am 355" SBC
10:1 with ported 492 heads, Performer RPM, and Holley 600.
RPM---TQ--BHP
3200--436--266
3400--443--287
3600--445--305
3800--444--321
4000--443--337
4200--440--352
4400--440--368
4600--441--386
4800--441--403
5000--432--411
5200--422--418
5400--412--423
5600--400--426
The cam is 216/220, on a 112 LSA, and 108 ICL
If you learned about engines, working on double overhead cam engines, you wouldn't even know what LSA is.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
What's your take on overlap then? Is that a consideration at the forefront? That's in our typical pushrod V8.CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:25 amLSA is something you end up with. It's not a parameter you design for.Orr89rocz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:04 amIts almost like the right engine build, with a good induction package will dictate power curve characteristics more so than what lsa you have.CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:03 am 355" SBC
10:1 with ported 492 heads, Performer RPM, and Holley 600.
RPM---TQ--BHP
3200--436--266
3400--443--287
3600--445--305
3800--444--321
4000--443--337
4200--440--352
4400--440--368
4600--441--386
4800--441--403
5000--432--411
5200--422--418
5400--412--423
5600--400--426
The cam is 216/220, on a 112 LSA, and 108 ICL
If you learned about engines, working on double overhead cam engines, you wouldn't even know what LSA is.
Kevin
- Stan Weiss
- Vendor
- Posts: 4820
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:31 pm
- Location: Philadelphia, PA
- Contact:
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Tim,ClassAct wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:11 amI started playing with TM yesterday and I’m a bit disappointed. For one, you can only test on SBC and SBF stuff. Not even BBC. And like I said, on pump gas up to 12:1 I don’t open the LSA a up on an in-line wedge head. You just kill power below peak torque and I hate that.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:36 pm307 601 10.5CR.png
I reduced CR to 10.5 and i did the calculus based on my new input Peak Power RPM which match the previous DCR. Now the program output 108 LCA, but its also 108hp down
I like all the parameters for 12CR. I dont know is it doable using 305 iron heads, flat top pistons and .43lift roller cam with 196int duration at 050 inch lift.
BBC HRT should work. I am hoping any day now David has the time to look at and give BBC SRT the final OK so I can release that.
Stan
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Exactly. Obviously other parameters are more important than just focusing on lsa. Like koenigsegg freevalve engine, doesnt have a cam lolCamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:25 amLSA is something you end up with. It's not a parameter you design for.Orr89rocz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:04 amIts almost like the right engine build, with a good induction package will dictate power curve characteristics more so than what lsa you have.CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:03 am 355" SBC
10:1 with ported 492 heads, Performer RPM, and Holley 600.
RPM---TQ--BHP
3200--436--266
3400--443--287
3600--445--305
3800--444--321
4000--443--337
4200--440--352
4400--440--368
4600--441--386
4800--441--403
5000--432--411
5200--422--418
5400--412--423
5600--400--426
The cam is 216/220, on a 112 LSA, and 108 ICL
If you learned about engines, working on double overhead cam engines, you wouldn't even know what LSA is.
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Overlap is the distance between the intake opening point, and the exhaust closing point.
The intake opening point is important.
The Exhaust closing point is important.
Overlap is just a result of those 2 important points.
How the engine reacts during that overlap period is really more reliant on when the exhaust opens and closes, and when the intake opens(in regards to the piston position). then on the total degrees of overlap.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
So,. on that free valce engine when it is free valving along doing its thing, what is the point of max valve lift?Orr89rocz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:46 amExactly. Obviously other parameters are more important than just focusing on lsa. Like koenigsegg freevalve engine, doesnt have a cam lol
How does that change as the engine accelerates through the rpm range @WOT? What do the free valves want to do ?
What happens (differently) if when it is free valveing along running at part throttle through various throttle settings and engine accelerations?
Any different points of max valve lift than say at WOT.
How else does the valves want to move (when and how much) "valve motion lift curve".
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:18 amYes. It's one of my HR cams.skinny z wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:38 amYour lobes Mike ( I would think yes)?CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:03 am 355" SBC
10:1 with ported 492 heads, Performer RPM, and Holley 600.
RPM---TQ--BHP
3200--436--266
3400--443--287
3600--445--305
3800--444--321
4000--443--337
4200--440--352
4400--440--368
4600--441--386
4800--441--403
5000--432--411
5200--422--418
5400--412--423
5600--400--426
The cam is 216/220, on a 112 LSA, and 108 ICL
Which ones?
.510"/.510" Valve Lift
This whole "EHR Series" of hydraulic Roller cam lobes look to me to be very usefull for a guy doing a high perf street engine build. There is a lot there to work from.
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Yep. There's a good chunk of that listing in my sim programs.
Kevin
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
You can watch some of Koenigsegg explanations but my understanding is its basically full control by the software and pneumatic actuators. Opening closing and lift of each valve is controlled. Any point desired. For each rpm and load of the engine, there is an optimal valve motion curve. This is trying to optimize each possible condition with a unique valve lift and area curve. Within limitations of controller response im sureF-BIRD'88 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:59 amSo,. on that free valce engine when it is free valving along doing its thing, what is the point of max valve lift?
How does that change as the engine accelerates through the rpm range @WOT? What do the free valves want to do ?
What happens (differently) if when it is free valveing along running at part throttle through various throttle settings and engine accelerations?
Any different points of max valve lift than say at WOT.
How else does the valves want to move (when and how much) "valve motion lift curve".
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Do you see something why the engine above would not perform as the TM predicts?ClassAct wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:11 amI started playing with TM yesterday and I’m a bit disappointed. For one, you can only test on SBC and SBF stuff. Not even BBC. And like I said, on pump gas up to 12:1 I don’t open the LSA a up on an in-line wedge head. You just kill power below peak torque and I hate that.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:36 pm307 601 10.5CR.png
I reduced CR to 10.5 and i did the calculus based on my new input Peak Power RPM which match the previous DCR. Now the program output 108 LCA, but its also 108hp down
I like all the parameters for 12CR. I dont know is it doable using 305 iron heads, flat top pistons and .43lift roller cam with 196int duration at 050 inch lift.
A balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
I get that. You can’t do that with a V8 cam.CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:25 amLSA is something you end up with. It's not a parameter you design for.Orr89rocz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:04 amIts almost like the right engine build, with a good induction package will dictate power curve characteristics more so than what lsa you have.CamKing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:03 am 355" SBC
10:1 with ported 492 heads, Performer RPM, and Holley 600.
RPM---TQ--BHP
3200--436--266
3400--443--287
3600--445--305
3800--444--321
4000--443--337
4200--440--352
4400--440--368
4600--441--386
4800--441--403
5000--432--411
5200--422--418
5400--412--423
5600--400--426
The cam is 216/220, on a 112 LSA, and 108 ICL
If you learned about engines, working on double overhead cam engines, you wouldn't even know what LSA is.
Re: 128 my take, anybody see it like this ?
Do what?ClassAct wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:01 pmI get that. You can’t do that with a V8 cam.
A balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger