How will you go faster?

[F-BIRD'88]

You can make 470 hp from the 10.50:1 CR sbc. fir sure..
BUT NOT AT 6000 RPM.. It will not happen.

Just gotta make 500 at 6500 to get you 470 at 6 don't you ?

A 350 sbc (10.50:1 cr) that makes 470 peak HP will do that at 6400-6700 rpm... Not 6000 rpm.

A 350 sbc (10.50:1 cr) that does make 470 to 500 hp @ 6500-6700 rpm needs to be geared high enough to trap at about 7200-7500 rpm to get a #3600 all street Camaro down the track.. It will need a 4.56 to 4.88 gear depending on tire diameter..
Nothing good is going to happen with just a 3.73 gear with this 350 sbc motor in this #3600 street car.

[digger]

Acceleration does NOT require a torque input!

Acceleration = (RWHP x 550)/(vehicle weight x 1.466666 x vehicle speed)

Acceleration in g's
Vehicle weight in lbs.
Vehicle speed in MPH

There are a few on this forum who have aided many of their customers to win many BIG championships and set many racing records. All of them think the same in this regard, listen to them!
I don't listen to someone with a cracker jack box education and nothing real world to backup their BS nonsense!

Perhaps you should go back to arguing with Mike Jones about cam design.. unreal buddy.

fundamentally the torque vs hp crown are arguing about the same thing written differently.

torque and the speed at which the torque is applied at a instant in time is the same as instaneous power and both giving you the instaneous tractive effort/force

torque by itself is useless, you need the speed/gearing characteristics of the propulsion source.

similarly a power number is usless, you need the speed/time dependency of the power unless it is operating at constant power

i find using power more convenient but it is simply a preference

[lefty o]

You can make 470 hp from the 10.50:1 CR sbc. fir sure..
BUT NOT AT 6000 RPM.. It will not happen.

Just gotta make 500 at 6500 to get you 470 at 6 don't you ?

A 350 sbc (10.50:1 cr) that makes 470 peak HP will do that at 6400-6700 rpm... Not 6000 rpm.

A 350 sbc (10.50:1 cr) that does make 470 to 500 hp @ 6500-6700 rpm needs to be geared high enough to trap at about 7200-7500 rpm to get a #3600 all street Camaro down the track.. It will need a 4.56 to 4.88 gear depending on tire diameter..
Nothing good is going to happen with just a 3.73 gear with this 350 sbc motor in this #3600 street car.

fairly close. perfect example, i have an old 350 sitting in the garage. 9.8:1 made 474hp at 6400rpm.

[vortecpro]

I think its important to look at cars incrementals like your own that are quick/fast, then figure out what makes them fast, then apply it to your own program.

[F-BIRD'88]

I think its important to look at cars incrementals like your own that are quick/fast, then figure out what makes them fast, then apply it to your own program.

For a street car having a detailed look at any Stock Eliminator car's chassis/ drivetrain is a must do.
You may not be able to incorporate all of it.
But your car certainly will run quicker/ faster with some of it. A lot of it is just reducing perasite rolling drag/ friction power loss and making full use of better drag launch friendly suspension geometry and control.

The gearing and torque converter is a BIG FACTOR.

[David Redszus]

Acceleration does NOT require a torque input!

Don't be silly. Of couse acceleration requires torque at the wheel. Where the hell do you think RWHP comes from? You can't have horsepower without torque.

Acceleration = (RWHP x 550)/(vehicle weight x 1.466666 x vehicle speed)

And how would you know the RWHP and vehicle speed before the car is built, or tested? You would simply pull it out of your arse.

I don't listen to someone with a cracker jack box education and nothing real world to backup their BS nonsense!

Have you EVER read an engineering textbook? Most probably not!

Perhaps you should go back to arguing with Mike Jones about cam design.. unreal buddy.

I don't argue with Mike Jones about cam design...why should I. My cam design mentors were far more advanced. Mike does an excellent job of building camshafts for his customers. And has done an excellent job with ST. I support his efforts.

Perhaps you should go back to baking cookies and stay away from engineering.

[parkman]

Probably this thread should stop the hp/tq discussion - it is obvious it is not solvable in a public forum.

[David Redszus]

The original intent of this thread was to examine the effect of various parameters that influence
drag race performance.

The idea was to build a car based on reasonable specifications, and then change each variable
by a specific amount to determine the effect on performance.

While the sensitivity study would be simulated, it would use engineering calculations and
reasonable data. The computational spreadsheets already exist, all that is necessary is the
remaining input data that represents real vehicles.

The first step would be to obtain an actual torque curve. The rest could be speculative.
Hopefully, it would bust a few myths and provide useful insight that is helpful to racers.

[Tom68]

Probably this thread should stop the hp/tq discussion - it is obvious it is not solvable in a public forum.

David isn't giving you an option to use power in answers he only talks torque and uses wheel speed to show useable moving energy.

He's at odds with the whole extended industry, Drags are won with Horsepower, Trucks are rated by Horsepower, Electric motors are rated by power.

He's complicating something that isn't that complicated. James Watt did us all a favour and David's trying to take us back before his time and rewrite engineering without power.

Obviously just my observation David.

The answer to the question at the start is to identify your weak areas and improve them, no traction...get some, no power... get some, wrong gearing....correct it, poorly balanced chassis...correct it.

[F-BIRD'88]

A power curve is more relevant than a torque curve.
Torque is a twisting force.
Power is a (rate of) measurment of getting work done / time.
Getting a car down a ¼ mile track from a standing start is getting work done. How fast (MPH) at the end is a good measure... How fast (quick(er) is too. The win goes to the quicker car that gets there first.

[bob460]

Why has NO one mentioned how important your front/rear quality SHOCKS have to be?

[hoffman900]

Why has NO one mentioned how important your front/rear quality SHOCKS have to be?

Shocks are one of the biggest performance items in road racing and circle track, they can make a huge difference. In drag racing it seems like the more powerful the car / grip limited it is, the more important.

[digger]

A power curve is more relevant than a torque curve.
Torque is a twisting force.
Power is a (rate of) measurment of getting work done / time.
Getting a car down a ¼ mile track from a standing start is getting work done. How fast (MPH) at the end is a good measure... How fast (quick(er) is too. The win goes to the quicker car that gets there first.

they both tell you the same thing (you can interchange between them)

[Tom68]

Why has NO one mentioned how important your front/rear quality SHOCKS have to be?

Comes under chassis sorting in my book.

download (1).jpg

[289nate]

they both tell you the same thing (you can interchange between them)

Sure, but why all the bias towards torque and the mockery of HP by a couple here? At the dragstrip or talking to people who race and are much better at it than I am, the conversation starts with horsepower when talking about engine power. When trying to get super technical it might evolve into torque at the tire. But it is never about the peak torque of the engine or the RPM that occurs at.