How will you go faster?

[parkman]

A power curve is more relevant than a torque curve.
Torque is a twisting force.
Power is a (rate of) measurment of getting work done / time.
Getting a car down a ¼ mile track from a standing start is getting work done. How fast (MPH) at the end is a good measure... How fast (quick(er) is too. The win goes to the quicker car that gets there first.

they both tell you the same thing (you can interchange between them)

They are not quite interchangeable digger. If you base your decisions on torque curve you get the example from a page or 2 ago. The only way a torque curve can be used to maximize performance is if you add the rpm component in the spreadsheet - so you can calculate the power curve and know what to optimize in the drivetrain.

pastry_chefs formula is correct, and is a much simpler way to optimize performance. I would hazard a guess he has read and understood an engineering text. Cannot comment on the baking cookies.

Some of us are trying to help with the original intent of the thread to examine the effect of various parameters that influence drag race performance which will hopefully bust a few myths and provide useful insight that is helpful to racers. Using the power curve instead of the torque curve in this example gave a 17% better acceleration. Seems pretty good bang for the buck.

[289nate]

Why has NO one mentioned how important your front/rear quality SHOCKS have to be?

They haven’t got that far yet. The faster you go the more important it is.

At minimum I will have to address my front shocks with the new combo. Front came up and off the ground way to quick with the last more mild engine.

[digger]

A power curve is more relevant than a torque curve.
Torque is a twisting force.
Power is a (rate of) measurment of getting work done / time.
Getting a car down a ¼ mile track from a standing start is getting work done. How fast (MPH) at the end is a good measure... How fast (quick(er) is too. The win goes to the quicker car that gets there first.

they both tell you the same thing (you can interchange between them)

They are not quite interchangeable digger. If you base your decisions on torque curve you get the example from a page or 2 ago. The only way a torque curve can be used to maximize performance is if you add the rpm component in the spreadsheet - so you can calculate the power curve and know what to optimize in the drivetrain.

pastry_chefs formula is correct, and is a much simpler way to optimize performance. I would hazard a guess he has read and understood an engineering text. Cannot comment on the baking cookies.

Some of us are trying to help with the original intent of the thread to examine the effect of various parameters that influence drag race performance which will hopefully bust a few myths and provide useful insight that is helpful to racers. Using the power curve instead of the torque curve in this example gave a 17% better acceleration. Seems pretty good bang for the buck.

the engine hp curve comes from the engine torque curve and vice versa. The torque curve to the wheels which is what we are maximising as this the actual tractive force propelling the vehcile comes when you maximise power to wheels available at any instant in time/speed/position and so forth. so they are 100% interchangable.

[parkman]

the engine hp curve comes from the engine torque curve and vice versa. The torque curve to the wheels which is what we are maximising as this the actual tractive force propelling the vehcile comes when you maximise power to wheels available at any instant in time/speed/position and so forth.

This of course is true. By definition at a specific rpm torque and hp both are maximized. But to maximize the hp at the wheels you need to maximize the hp at the engine, which is definitely not the torque peak. So you need to optimize the drivetrain, and therefore power and torque are not interchangeable.

[hoffman900]

they both tell you the same thing (you can interchange between them)

They are not quite interchangeable digger. If you base your decisions on torque curve you get the example from a page or 2 ago. The only way a torque curve can be used to maximize performance is if you add the rpm component in the spreadsheet - so you can calculate the power curve and know what to optimize in the drivetrain.

pastry_chefs formula is correct, and is a much simpler way to optimize performance. I would hazard a guess he has read and understood an engineering text. Cannot comment on the baking cookies.

Some of us are trying to help with the original intent of the thread to examine the effect of various parameters that influence drag race performance which will hopefully bust a few myths and provide useful insight that is helpful to racers. Using the power curve instead of the torque curve in this example gave a 17% better acceleration. Seems pretty good bang for the buck.

the engine hp curve comes from the engine torque curve and vice versa. The torque curve to the wheels which is what we are maximising as this the actual tractive force propelling the vehcile comes when you maximise power to wheels available at any instant in time/speed/position and so forth. so they are 100% interchangable.

This and then there is a time component. Think of it as power pulse vs time. Each cylinder does so much work, and the more you have firing, the more pulses you have over unit time, which multiplied through gearing produces thrust.

It also should be noted raising BMEP (torque / displacement) is much harder than raising the speed at which peak torque and the fall off of it occurs.

[289nate]

Tiny radiator, front tires aired way up, drag brakes, chin spoiler to keep air out from under the car, sideways mounted carburetor, aluminum exhaust system if one is required, helium in the tires , etc. But talking about the power curve and maximizing it down the tracks are gearing is a lot more manly. And a great place to focus right off the bat.

[hoffman900]

Tiny radiator, front tires aired way up, drag brakes, chin spoiler to keep air out from under the car, sideways mounted carburetor, aluminum exhaust system if one is required, helium in the tires , etc. But talking about the power curve and maximizing it down the tracks are gearing is a lot more manly. And a great place to focus right off the bat.

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

I wonder how many out there are checking the alignment of their rear ends, both axle alignment and whether it is square in the rear.

[Tom68]

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

Unless it's on the left front.

Screenshot 2022-11-20 140951.jpg

[289nate]

Tiny radiator, front tires aired way up, drag brakes, chin spoiler to keep air out from under the car, sideways mounted carburetor, aluminum exhaust system if one is required, helium in the tires , etc. But talking about the power curve and maximizing it down the tracks are gearing is a lot more manly. And a great place to focus right off the bat.

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

John Calvert was nice enough to to modify my stock A arms so they can articulate without going googley eyed for a friendly price when I took my car there some years back. Helped it go straight down the track eliminating extra distance with swerving as well. Tires scrubbing down the track is bad.

Then there is not having a bound up suspension.

[289nate]

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

Unless it's on the left front.

Screenshot 2022-11-20 140951.jpg

Throw an aired up Walmart football and that passenger rear coil to help with that. Lol. Believe it or not it has been done. I absolutely do not recommend that if you value your life though. If you do that there is removing the caps from the valve stems on your tires to reduce rotating mass.

[hoffman900]

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

Unless it's on the left front.

Screenshot 2022-11-20 140951.jpg

Great for aero, fuel distribution, and oil control

In road racing we are always playing with alignment. It’s a balance between handling and in lower power classes, rolling resistance. A road racing friend has a street car and bought some rear end parts from a popular drag racing aftermarket supplier. He had a hard time getting it where he wanted it and their tech support was flippant “we don’t have this problem with other people”, paraphrasing “Yeah because most everyone isn’t measuring this shit”.

[Tom68]

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

Unless it's on the left front.

Screenshot 2022-11-20 140951.jpg

Great for aero, fuel distribution, and oil control

In road racing we are always playing with alignment. It’s a balance between handling and in lower power classes, rolling resistance. A road racing friend has a street car and bought some rear end parts from a popular drag racing aftermarket supplier. He had a hard time getting it where he wanted it and their tech support was flippant “we don’t have this problem with other people”, paraphrasing “Yeah because most everyone isn’t measuring this shit”.

I have a bit of Setup and building Circuit and roundy experience.

From 34 seconds.

https://youtu.be/PzsUI3QOqSg

[steve cowan]

Tiny radiator, front tires aired way up, drag brakes, chin spoiler to keep air out from under the car, sideways mounted carburetor, aluminum exhaust system if one is required, helium in the tires , etc. But talking about the power curve and maximizing it down the tracks are gearing is a lot more manly. And a great place to focus right off the bat.

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

I wonder how many out there are checking the alignment of their rear ends, both axle alignment and whether it is square in the rear.

Screenshot_20220828-194607_Chrome.jpg

20220806_155436.jpg

I lowered the front of my car and inch about a month ago, spent 2 days checking wheel alignment, square of car with laser off crank centreline and plumbob.
It's all factory set up but I keep rear leaf springs, shackles, caltracs loose for ease of movement.
Front camber at ride height is zero and at extension it goes through a negative 2 degrees to zero at full suspension extension.
At 3600 pounds I push my car pretty easy in staging lanes.
It's certainly not perfect but it's not bad either.

[Tom68]

Tiny radiator, front tires aired way up, drag brakes, chin spoiler to keep air out from under the car, sideways mounted carburetor, aluminum exhaust system if one is required, helium in the tires , etc. But talking about the power curve and maximizing it down the tracks are gearing is a lot more manly. And a great place to focus right off the bat.

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

I wonder how many out there are checking the alignment of their rear ends, both axle alignment and whether it is square in the rear.

Screenshot_20220828-194607_Chrome.jpg20220806_155436.jpg
I lowered the front of my car and inch about a month ago, spent 2 days checking wheel alignment, square of car with laser off crank centreline and plumbob.
It's all factory set up but I keep rear leaf springs, shackles, caltracs loose for ease of movement.
Front camber at ride height is zero and at extension it goes through a negative 2 degrees to zero at full suspension extension.
At 3600 pounds I push my car pretty easy in staging lanes.
It's certainly not perfect but it's not bad either.

HJ 1 tonners have the front leaf mounts staggered on the chassis (right side trailing) I have one, don't know about the utes.

[steve cowan]

A bad alignment and a slightly dragging caliper can kill a lot of horsepower

I wonder how many out there are checking the alignment of their rear ends, both axle alignment and whether it is square in the rear.

Screenshot_20220828-194607_Chrome.jpg20220806_155436.jpg
I lowered the front of my car and inch about a month ago, spent 2 days checking wheel alignment, square of car with laser off crank centreline and plumbob.
It's all factory set up but I keep rear leaf springs, shackles, caltracs loose for ease of movement.
Front camber at ride height is zero and at extension it goes through a negative 2 degrees to zero at full suspension extension.
At 3600 pounds I push my car pretty easy in staging lanes.
It's certainly not perfect but it's not bad either.

HJ 1 tonners have the front leaf mounts staggered on the chassis (right side trailing) I have one, don't know about the utes.

Interesting,
I didn't know that.
I just measured mine and same both sides