Roller rockers, difference between brands?

[smokie]

will different brands of roller rockers move the sweep pattern placement on the valve stem and need different length pushrods, even if staying with the same 1.5 ratio?

I have a set of sbc heads and to get the smallest sweep, the roller tip comes around. 040-.060" from the edge of the valve on the exhaust side. I do have .100" longer valves, but this is the first time I've ever ran into this. I'm also using scorpion roller rockers for the first time (I always used Harland Sharps in the past). I'm just wondering if I try a different brand if the sweep pattern will move in closer to the center on the valve and if I'll need new pushrods (probably).

I'm also thinking of trying the Elgin stainless roller rockers for sbc. The price looks like they are probably Chinese, but has anyone used them?

Anyone have any insight on this?

[Alaskaracer]

You need to set geometry before you determine pushrod length...it's not just about the rocker arm.....

Here, watch this video:

https://youtu.be/o5is9BsH5OU

[BOOT]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hrdp- ... m-comparo/ FYI click "show all" for the graph

Also, man are those Scorpion Race rockers Bulky! Never used em before but found some deals recently on ebay, got a New set of 1.5 for $240 and half a New set of 1.7 for $90

Some of the weights in that article aren't right my comp moly 1.6 rockers are like 213g

Weird how Scorpion prices the Race lower, that are stronger/heavier than the Endurance LOL pay for more less rocker!

[ClassAct]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hrdp- ... m-comparo/ FYI click "show all" for the graph

Also, man are those Scorpion Race rockers Bulky! Never used em before but found some deals recently on ebay, got a New set of 1.5 for $240 and half a New set of 1.7 for $90

Some of the weights in that article aren't right my comp moly 1.6 rockers are like 213g

Weird how Scorpion prices the Race lower, that are stronger/heavier than the Endurance LOL pay for more less rocker!

I didn’t read your link but I did see it looked like they checked the rockers with checking springs. If that’s the case, they have no idea what the actual ratio of each rocker was. They have to be checked loaded.

[BillK]

Smokie,
I have had a few times over the years where a customer has brought me rocker arms and I simply could not get the geometry right. Every time the rockers were "no-name" and every time I have swapped them to Comp Cams and everything fell right into place. Any chance somebody you know might have a different brand rocker you can try ?

Personally I have not seen a big difference in using checking springs as compared to using the actual springs.

[russxr67]

Smokie,
I have had a few times over the years where a customer has brought me rocker arms and I simply could not get the geometry right. Every time the rockers were "no-name" and every time I have swapped them to Comp Cams and everything fell right into place. Any chance somebody you know might have a different brand rocker you can try ?

Personally I have not seen a big difference in using checking springs as compared to using the actual springs.

Funny you mention comp cams rockers.
Just used a set of their premium 1830-16 rockers on a Cleveland.
Geometry with those things was awful.
Im willing to bet they’re not a dedicated cleveland rocker at all.
Should have stuck to Yella Terra rockers.

[77cruiser]

I used Scorpion rockers & they were centered pretty good but with stock length valves.

[steve cowan]

I have several sets of scorpion stud rockers and I think they are pretty good value for money.
The link that Colarado put up is excellent in my opinion.
Using that method will get you there.
Narrow sweep is what you want, does" not "have to be centre of valve.

[bob460]

You need to set geometry before you determine pushrod length...it's not just about the rocker arm.....

Here, watch this video:

https://youtu.be/o5is9BsH5OU

Foxwell is a sharp dude and does nice work.................i wonder why Straub let him go....

[bob460]

Smokie,
I have had a few times over the years where a customer has brought me rocker arms and I simply could not get the geometry right. Every time the rockers were "no-name" and every time I have swapped them to Comp Cams and everything fell right into place. Any chance somebody you know might have a different brand rocker you can try ?

Personally I have not seen a big difference in using checking springs as compared to using the actual springs.

Funny you mention comp cams rockers.
Just used a set of their premium 1830-16 rockers on a Cleveland.
Geometry with those things was awful.
Im willing to bet they’re not a dedicated cleveland rocker at all.
Should have stuck to Yella Terra rockers.

Comp engines down in Melb use them all the time, no problems..........seems strange.

They work well on big block fords.

[russxr67]

Funny you mention comp cams rockers.
Just used a set of their premium 1830-16 rockers on a Cleveland.
Geometry with those things was awful.
Im willing to bet they’re not a dedicated cleveland rocker at all.
Should have stuck to Yella Terra rockers.

Comp engines down in Melb use them all the time, no problems..........seems strange.

They work well on big block fords.

You can of course fudge the geometry to make them work but if you try and set them up using mid lift you’ll see that they don’t quite work with that method.
It’s the same with the cheaper scorpion’s on Cleveland’s.
When I swap them out for YT rockers , like the 5006’s and 6321’s they always set up exactly as expected .

[smokie]

I did the mid lift set up for determining the pushrod length. I used both a checker spring and a comp 987 and the both gave the same pattern in the same placement with the same pushrod length.

There isn't many hotrodders around anymore (sadly), the younger people racing wannabe ricers and low rider trucks. I might be able to borrow some from my machinist.

I'm kinda wondering if I could have used a shorter valve to get my installed height. I'm using a set of the same castings as the afr enforcer heads with a + .100" long valve for a 1.8" installed height.

[Bigchief632]

will different brands of roller rockers move the sweep pattern placement on the valve stem and need different length pushrods, even if staying with the same 1.5 ratio?

I have a set of sbc heads and to get the smallest sweep, the roller tip comes around. 040-.060" from the edge of the valve on the exhaust side. I do have .100" longer valves, but this is the first time I've ever ran into this. I'm also using scorpion roller rockers for the first time (I always used Harland Sharps in the past). I'm just wondering if I try a different brand if the sweep pattern will move in closer to the center on the valve and if I'll need new pushrods (probably).

I'm also thinking of trying the Elgin stainless roller rockers for sbc. The price looks like they are probably Chinese, but has anyone used them?

Anyone have any insight on this?

Those Elgin rockers are junk. I had a set lock up the bearings in under 300 street miles, luckily he was smart enough to figure out something was wrong and stopped running it until I could check it out. I know of a few other sets that had issues like that too. MAYBE on a super mild cam with Z-28 springs or something. Yes, they are made in China and you get what you pay for. PRW are decent china rockers, but the price shows that. I'm pretty sure Comp gets their stainless roller rockers and the roller tip magnum rockers from the same source. They are IDENTICAL except for the CC stamped on them vs PRW. What heads are these you're working with?

[smokie]

I'm using the same castings as the afr enforcer heads, assault, nkb ect.

So Elgin is selling junk now. I've been out of hotrodding for several years. Chinese junk has taken over everything.

[skinny z]

I've found that yes, between one brand of rocker and another, despite having the same advertised ratio, the sweep across the valve tip will change for a given pushrod length.
Case in point: 2 SBC's. One with RHS Vortecs. The other with AFR 195's.
The go to rocker in this case was COMPs Ultra Pro Magnum at 1.6. It was very difficult to get good geometry (via the mid-lift method). On the RHS heads (with .100" longer than stock valves), it was impossible to keep the contact away from the outboard side of the valve tip. The angularity was ok but the location wasn't suitable.
It wasn't as bad on the AFR heads but still not perfect.
To remedy the RHS package, I went to Crowers Enduro SS rocker with an .050" backset trunnion (1.6rr). That pulled the contact away from the valve tip edge and the resulting witness mark showed a sweep around .030-040" dead centre.
Trying the same rocker on the AFR heads and the contact went too far inboard. It ended up being the same Crower rocker but without the backset that did the trick.
So, on the AFR's the COMPs didn't work well but the Crower's did. Same ratio. Same material. Same backset.