Cam gurus, I need advice

[skinny z]

ISKY.jpg

Damn! How hard could that be to duplicate?
I'd like to have a a lifter set in hand to see the fasteners and how it all goes together.
But that's a project for another day I guess.
Thanks for that Dan. Excellent bit of info (to me anyway).

[6.50camaro]

Skinny Z , Crower also uses a machine screw and button set up on Many of their solid rollers I have seen. Just noticed that Comp used a machine screw set up on their sbc T slot removable tie lifter also. Dan

[skinny z]

Skinny Z , Crower also uses a machine screw and button set up on Many of their solid rollers I have seen. Just noticed that Comp used a machine screw set up on their sbc T slot removable tie lifter also. Dan

Not being in the solid lifter camp explains why I've never come across this before. (Let F-bird know I've no intention of going here either...)
I doubt if a conversion is possible but I will be calling COMP for rebuilding guidance. Calling because their e-mail turnaround is pathetic. Same with Crower and the rockers I have that definitely need attention.
This stuff isn't cheap by a hobbyist's standards so I'm seeking some kind of workaround so I can get back out there.
Thanks for that Dan.

[Orr89rocz]

Skinny Z , Crower also uses a machine screw and button set up on Many of their solid rollers I have seen. Just noticed that Comp used a machine screw set up on their sbc T slot removable tie lifter also. Dan

Not being in the solid lifter camp explains why I've never come across this before. (Let F-bird know I've no intention of going here either...)
I doubt if a conversion is possible but I will be calling COMP for rebuilding guidance. Calling because their e-mail turnaround is pathetic. Same with Crower and the rockers I have that definitely need attention.
This stuff isn't cheap by a hobbyist's standards so I'm seeking some kind of workaround so I can get back out there.
Thanks for that Dan.

I mean you could do a setup like my bbc, its a solid with conical springs that are about hyd roller pressures lol

I have the isky lifters with the tall body and the tie bars are separate like the picture above, just slip in. Weird seeing how they arent attached like the riveted ones but again, how much force does the tie bar see if everything is working as it should?

[skinny z]

Weird seeing how they arent attached like the riveted ones but again, how much force does the tie bar see if everything is working as it should?

Weird indeed. Especially when it's unexpected.

Screenshot_20230203-063549-524.png

One school of thought is that the cam was walking back and forth and eventually fatigued the river. I checked the end play on the cam during disassembly and it appeared to be as it should. I've an adjustable thrust button in the timing cover and it also looked to be intact. But, end play may have been the undoing anyway.

[smokie]

A couple of you have suggested I should change out my valve springs. Regardless of which cam I end up using, I need valve train control, and the lifters kept on the cam.

Just a recap, I have afr enforcer/assault/proheader heads , +.100" valves with comp 987 springs installed at 1.8" and Im thinking of upgrading to a pac 1218 or 1219. My question is, the PAC springs install at 1.8" as well, but will it be as simple as switching out the spring seats, springs and retainers, or is the beehive retainers different as far as installed height compared to a comp cams retainer for the 987 springs?

Is there another dual spring setup that will go right in place of my 987 springs so I can use existing spring seats, retainers and locks that install at 1.8"?

I'm pretty sure beehives will go on vortec heads with a standard length valve at 1.8". This makes me think the beehive retainers sit up higher on the bottom making a higher installed height.

[skinny z]

You'll find that the 987 and PAC's 1219 have nothing in common size wise.
Spring base O.D and I.D are different. The same with the top. The retainer for the PAC spring is tiny in comparison which is part of the benefit. Less mass to control.
An I.D. locator will be needed as the spring pockets are too large for the PAC spring.
Depending on the valve in use, you may find it necessary, as I did, to use an offset valve lock (+.050" in my case) to compensate for the thickness of the locator and or shims if needed. I targeted a 1.80" installed in my aftermarket heads with a .100" longer valve.

As for the Vortecs, the beehives will require an offset lock as well as the installed height with the Vortec spring is 1.7". The retainers don't enter into the pictures height wise but they do offer increased retainer to seal clearance. The 26918 COMP spring (like PAC's 1218/19) are a drop in replacement for Vortec heads when looking for that additional clearance.

[skinny z]

My question is, the PAC springs install at 1.8" as well, but will it be as simple as switching out the spring seats, springs and retainers, or is the beehive retainers different as far as installed height compared to a comp cams retainer for the 987 springs?

Whatever route you go smokie, you'll have to assemble with the locators and retainers and then measure for the installed height.
Then it'll be a mix and match of additional shims and/or offset locks.
If you lucky, the .060" spring locator (I.D. for the beehive style spring) with work out to provide the correct installed height.

[smokie]

I seen a video on YouTube, the guy was using the same heads, .060" spring seats, a cc retainer for the beehive 1219 with std height locks and retainers and +.100 valves and the space between the retainer and spring seats was 1.95". He took out the +.100" valves and put stock length valves back in and used a -.050" retainer (or lock, I don't remember) to get the installed height of 1.8".

Since my heads are bolted on and I just bought backset HS rockers to fix my roller tip positioning off the near edge of the valves, changing the valves isn't an option.

Skinny z, I seen the parts list you posted for the PAC spring convention and that is exactly what he used, part for part.

I've heard it's not good to use both -.050"retainers and locks at the same time, but I don't know how true that is.
I guess I'll just buy a single retainer and measure it out.

[skinny z]

I used COMP's 26918 spring.
For all intents and purposes it measures the same as the PAC 1219. ID, OD, rate.

Retainers are COMP's tool steel.
https://www.compcams.com/7-lightweight- ... g-dia.html

I used Cranes .+050" keepers.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99095-1

ID locators are COMP's. 060" thick for a 1.30" valve spring.
https://www.compcams.com/spring-i-d-loc ... o-d-1.html
(Double check the valve guide diameter on that)

Due to the stack up of parts, the locators decreased the installed height too much. To bring it back to 1.80" , I used a .015" shim on the locator. The .050" taller keeper dialed in the height to 1.80".

I've not come across an offset retainer for the smaller springs. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I haven't come across it.

[smokie]

I haven't found a +- retainer for the beehives myself.

[skinny z]

I'd say the idea you have of buying a single retainer and one locator for measuring is the way to go.
You don't even need the locator really. That dimension is listed so one retainer with a regular lock (they're the same between the 987 and beehives) and you'll have the numbers needed to proceed.

Question: do you use a height micrometer for measuring? Snap gauge and calipers?
The reason I ask is that there's a peculiarity when using a height mike and the small retainers. Some compensation is required. Somewhere here at Speed Talk is a thread with that discussion.

[smokie]

Snap gauge and calipers. That little retainer looks tricky.

[skinny z]

That'll be my approach this go around as well.
IIRC, the height mike is calibrated for a full size retainer. However there's a recess in the top of the mike that the small retainer will fit in to. The depth of that recess has to be considered when reading the mike.
I'll have to revisit this (hence the snap gauge) and compare it with the micrometer. Then go through my last round of build notes.