Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

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Schurkey
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by Schurkey »

frnkeore wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:37 am Ford has huge tech resources that could be directed at the program, if they so desire and if the word comes from the top, it could be immediately done. Look at the Indy engine and the GT40.
I prefer to look at Ford's previous track record with F1, when considering the current F1 project.

Ford wrote check(s), and took credit for other people's work. The best they can say is that the "other people's work" probably wouldn't have happened if Ford hadn't written the check(s).
frnkeore wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:37 am The Ford Cosworth F1 engine, is one of the most successful, of all time and it's start was based on a 4 cylinder, Ford production engine.
Yes, the Cosworth DFV was based on the Cosworth FVA, which was based on the Cortina Four-Popper. But that's like saying the GM LS is just another "small block Chevy". At least GM Powertrain developed their own LS-series engines, rather than subcontracting to outsiders.
frnkeore wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:37 am A quote;
Ford has a rich history in Formula 1 and is the third most successful engine manufacturer in the history of the sport behind Mercedes and Ferrari.
How many DFVs did FORD manufacture?
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by allencr267 »

Schurkey wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:21 pm How many DFVs did FORD manufacture?
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth_DFV

"As of mid-1982, 375 engines had been built. The cost of a complete engine at that time, purchased directly from Cosworth, was £27,296, approximately equivalent to £102,000 in 2021."
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by Schurkey »

frnkeore wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:37 am Ford has a rich history in Formula 1 and is the third most successful engine manufacturer in the history of the sport behind Mercedes and Ferrari.
Schurkey wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:21 pm How many DFVs did FORD manufacture?
allencr267 wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:50 pm from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth_DFV

"As of mid-1982, 375 engines had been built. The cost of a complete engine at that time, purchased directly from Cosworth, was £27,296, approximately equivalent to £102,000 in 2021."
Yeah, that's exactly my point. COSWORTH built a bunch, FORD built ZERO, but gets the credit.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by frnkeore »

Schurkey,
You must really have a lot of distain for GM, who have never built a Indy or F1 engine but try to take the glory by badging engines that others designed and built.

Ford designed and built it's Indy engine, from scratch, based on it's new (1 year old) SBF, of the time.

Ford partnered with Cosworth because of it's work on on the Lotus Twin Cam and F2 FVA. It was a partnership. Ford had a stake in it.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by hoffman900 »

Why does this matter? You guys are arguing 40-60yo history. It’s done, dusted, and the rest of the world moved on.

GM never built anything internally until recently (Katech, ECR, Ilmor, Hendrick, Traco, Warren Johnson, etc) and many others carried the torch for GM. Ford’s almost always been involved in racing, whether bankrolling or involved directly.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

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Hello Wetflow, what does the ( e ) on the left side of Methanol represent ? Mark H.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by skinny z »

hoffman900 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:15 am Why does this matter? You guys are arguing 40-60yo history. It’s done, dusted, and the rest of the world moved on.

GM never built anything internally until recently (Katech, ECR, Ilmor, Hendrick, Traco, Warren Johnson, etc) and many others carried the torch for GM. Ford’s almost always been involved in racing, whether bankrolling or involved directly.
Done and dusted. Yep. But look who's back?
Personally, now that it looks as though F1 has gotten a better foothold in the States, it's good to see the US based manufacturers throw their hats into the ring.
Not sure how the GM thing shakes out in an overall sense though. While it's certainly not F1, isn't GM directly involved through Corvette Racing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_Racing
Then there's Cadillac and IMSA. Who's the driving force behind that?

P.S. I've a picture somewhere from Mosport Park during the 70's. In the back of a transport truck trailer where several Traco built 5 litre SBC's. The looks of the injector stacks still stay with me to this day.
Was Traco hired by GM for development and distribution?
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by Tuner »

hoffman900 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:15 am Why does this matter? You guys are arguing 40-60yo history. It’s done, dusted, and the rest of the world moved on.

GM never built anything internally until recently (Katech, ECR, Ilmor, Hendrick, Traco, Warren Johnson, etc) and many others carried the torch for GM. Ford’s almost always been involved in racing, whether bankrolling or involved directly.
What about the Olds Aurora V8 GM built for the IRL IndyCar series? I recall it evolved from the Cadillac Northstar engine.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by hoffman900 »

Tuner wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:33 pm
hoffman900 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:15 am Why does this matter? You guys are arguing 40-60yo history. It’s done, dusted, and the rest of the world moved on.

GM never built anything internally until recently (Katech, ECR, Ilmor, Hendrick, Traco, Warren Johnson, etc) and many others carried the torch for GM. Ford’s almost always been involved in racing, whether bankrolling or involved directly.
What about the Olds Aurora V8 GM built for the IRL IndyCar series? I recall it evolved from the Cadillac Northstar engine.
That was in house as was the IMSA Prototype engine it derived from. They also did their own Indy Car engine after that as well, with mixed success before going back to Ilmor. Mike Jones and Darin Morgan were involved with these engines and could elaborate further.

Regardless, none of this matters. The argument reads like a bunch if old guys arguing about stuff no one cares about but other old guys, who weren’t even involved anyway.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by Mummert »

The Aurora was built in England. The engine is probably most related and inspired by the 2.0l pinto than anything. 4.016" bore centers, 8.169" deck height, bore and stroke were slightly different, but nothing that couldn't be overcome if you were gonna go that far. Aurora 4.0l 93mmx73mm 2.0 pinto was 91mm x 75mm
I had an Aurora Indy head bolted up to a 2.0L pinto block with some deck work at one time. We were looking at the concept of building a 4 cylinder R&D engine for INDY teams that could be developed for 1/2 price. When the engine got destroked to 3.5L it threw many of the lower budget teams for a loop.
If you wanted to try a new header, cams, piston etc.. you would only need 1/2 the parts to try it.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by hoodeng »

Ford's involvement with Cosworth was more than riding a coat tail. Collaborations between Ford UK, Cosworth, Weslake and Lotus saw some world beating combinations in production cars [Escorts and Sierra's], using power plants derived from race units.

As usual in F1 engine manufacturers come and manufacturers go, it's great to see a mainstream auto manufacturer step up to the plate. Good luck to Ford.

But i have a enduring respect for Ferrari, they have stuck it out through good times and not so good times.

Cheers.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by superpursuit »

Mummert wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:36 pm The Aurora was built in England. The engine is probably most related and inspired by the 2.0l pinto than anything. 4.016" bore centers, 8.169" deck height, bore and stroke were slightly different, but nothing that couldn't be overcome if you were gonna go that far. Aurora 4.0l 93mmx73mm 2.0 pinto was 91mm x 75mm
I had an Aurora Indy head bolted up to a 2.0L pinto block with some deck work at one time. We were looking at the concept of building a 4 cylinder R&D engine for INDY teams that could be developed for 1/2 price. When the engine got destroked to 3.5L it threw many of the lower budget teams for a loop.
If you wanted to try a new header, cams, piston etc.. you would only need 1/2 the parts to try it.

How does 2mm more bore and 2 mm less stroke make the Aurora engine 2X the capacity of the Pinto.
(Aurora 4.0L, Pinto 2.0L).

Thanks, Allan.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by chimpvalet »

hoodeng wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:26 am Ford's involvement with Cosworth was more than riding a coat tail. Collaborations between Ford UK, Cosworth, Weslake and Lotus saw some world beating combinations in production cars [Escorts and Sierra's], using power plants derived from race units.

As usual in F1 engine manufacturers come and manufacturers go, it's great to see a mainstream auto manufacturer step up to the plate. Good luck to Ford.

But i have a enduring respect for Ferrari, they have stuck it out through good times and not so good times.

Right, Ferrari do keep at it in F1 though unlike everyone else they are paid a 100 million Euro stipend just for being Ferrari.

Cheers
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by hoodeng »

I looked up about the unequal distribution of prize money in regards to Ferrari's "Historic advantage" ,giving them a greater percentage per win of the prize pool. This seems to have been in place for a very long time.[not that i agree with it].
Or is the 100 million Euro on top of that distribution? I could find no reference to that stipend as a individual on top bonus payment for participation only.

If Ferrari found themselves season on season sniffing the fields fumes from the other end of the grid after a race, i would think they would knock back the bonus and participation first before bringing their brand name into discredit.

Although, i have always wondered how they could fund the participation's, and lifestyle's from selling what is essentially a hand full of cars per year [just over 11K 2021]regardless of price.
I still respect their persistence.
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Re: Ford announce plans to return to F1 from the 2026 season

Post by MichaelThompson »

It may be interesting to consider that the Ford/Cosworth DFV blocks and cylinder heads were cast inside Ford’s Dagenham engine plant.


Ford has in my opinion always been at or near the forefront of casting technology.

The whole “thin wall” casting process which was based on pre-heated core boxes, was a Ford patented technology.

Later Ford and Cosworth brought forth the Cosworth casting technology which I believe was during the period of time when Ford fully owned Cosworth.
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