Guys
I have just convinced a customer to get rid of his Trick Flow twisted wedge heads. Rocker arm problems and the valve location for pistons is too much of a problem.
Now given that, what head is available that we could use out of the box that would be capable of producing say 700 hp.
Is anything available.
Trev
400 Chev head selection
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bill jones
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-it would have to flow about 320CFM and thats a lot for a 23 degree low port head.
-The most I've ever seen on low port 23's on my flowbench is about 297 at .600" at 28".
-I'm sure other guys can get the big numbers but 297 at .600" on my bench is REAL GOOD.
-This was a set of 60/40 Brodix Track 1X's with the valves moved .060" and .040" towards the exhaust shroud wall and I don't remember if the the heads ported or not.
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-Typically I see 284 CFM is about all I can get as an average of 8 cylinders (@.600") on heads that I port, and part of that is most of the heads I port have some limited budget.
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-One other thing is you need to work on getting the air to flow thru the manifold and the carburetor as that is all part of the restriction.
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-When I want to test the flow of manifolds and carburetors I adjust each head port at 284CFM (at 28")(somewhere close to .600" lift) then flow the corresponding manifold runner with the carburetor and airfliter or inlet radius.
-Typically I see the flow drop from 284 to about 269 (at 28") as an average of the 8 ports when using something like a stock Edelbrock Victor JR manifold and a gutted 750 carburetor that flows right at 1000cfm (at 1.5" mercury).
-But the high and low of the best to the worst flowing manifold ports is about 274 to 262.
-So part of the deal is do get those bad ports to flow closer to the good ports and improve the good ports along the way.
-The most I've ever seen on low port 23's on my flowbench is about 297 at .600" at 28".
-I'm sure other guys can get the big numbers but 297 at .600" on my bench is REAL GOOD.
-This was a set of 60/40 Brodix Track 1X's with the valves moved .060" and .040" towards the exhaust shroud wall and I don't remember if the the heads ported or not.
-----------------------------------
-Typically I see 284 CFM is about all I can get as an average of 8 cylinders (@.600") on heads that I port, and part of that is most of the heads I port have some limited budget.
----------------------------------------
-One other thing is you need to work on getting the air to flow thru the manifold and the carburetor as that is all part of the restriction.
-----------------------------------------
-When I want to test the flow of manifolds and carburetors I adjust each head port at 284CFM (at 28")(somewhere close to .600" lift) then flow the corresponding manifold runner with the carburetor and airfliter or inlet radius.
-Typically I see the flow drop from 284 to about 269 (at 28") as an average of the 8 ports when using something like a stock Edelbrock Victor JR manifold and a gutted 750 carburetor that flows right at 1000cfm (at 1.5" mercury).
-But the high and low of the best to the worst flowing manifold ports is about 274 to 262.
-So part of the deal is do get those bad ports to flow closer to the good ports and improve the good ports along the way.
FKNED
Yes Sorry
I suppose what I should have said was is there a great said of heads that come with all the work already done. With springs and retainers to suit a roller hyd cam, already ported (CNC) that I can bolt on and get big HP from.
I suppose what I should have said was is there a great said of heads that come with all the work already done. With springs and retainers to suit a roller hyd cam, already ported (CNC) that I can bolt on and get big HP from.
I think you might need to go to an 18º or 15º head to do that, ..
Brodix does make -18 X that still uses standard style rockers, I've had
them flowing in the upper 340's @ 28" with a 2.140 valve.
They claim around 320 out of the box but from experience they might
not make the power you need in stock form, .. they'll need to be ported.
They will have a 250cc or so intake so I wouldn't consider it a street head.
The 11 X is a 23º head that fully ported can reach the 320's cfm with a
2.140" valve. It can use standard rockers but needs a special stud girdle
for the 40/60 valve spacing.
OOPs, . just saw your post, .. outa the box head, .. can't think of one, ..
and not with a hydr roller, .. .. you might be able to get a CnC'd Dart
head but it'll be an 18º and need offset rockers & lifters.
Curtis
Brodix does make -18 X that still uses standard style rockers, I've had
them flowing in the upper 340's @ 28" with a 2.140 valve.
They claim around 320 out of the box but from experience they might
not make the power you need in stock form, .. they'll need to be ported.
They will have a 250cc or so intake so I wouldn't consider it a street head.
The 11 X is a 23º head that fully ported can reach the 320's cfm with a
2.140" valve. It can use standard rockers but needs a special stud girdle
for the 40/60 valve spacing.
OOPs, . just saw your post, .. outa the box head, .. can't think of one, ..
and not with a hydr roller, .. .. you might be able to get a CnC'd Dart
head but it'll be an 18º and need offset rockers & lifters.
Curtis
Last edited by cboggs on Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Race Flow Development
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
Simultaneous 5-axis CNC Porting
http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com
fkned
FKNED
I'm asking because a dirt modified engine customer brought me a couple of unfinished heads (Brodix-Pontiac 23DEG) to use in place of the iron darts we have been using.
I need to decide whether to stick to the iron or go to the alum.
Who was doing these heads and what kind of flow #s and hp were they producing?Fkned wrote:That's a lot of power if you mean out of the box unported.If you mean cnc'ed ready to bolt on then maybe try the pontiac 867 casting from Brodix.It's a raised runner head that a shop I workrd at had very good success running it in All Pro series.
I'm asking because a dirt modified engine customer brought me a couple of unfinished heads (Brodix-Pontiac 23DEG) to use in place of the iron darts we have been using.
I need to decide whether to stick to the iron or go to the alum.
javier
700 hp
Hi Trevor
Is this 700hp number realistic? Is it realistic with a hydraulic roller?
Just asking 'cause as you would know, hydraulic rollers aren't to common in Aust.
Does he already have 23 deg pistons or are 18 or 15 degree heads an option? Whats the rest of the combination and intended application?
If you must stick with 23 deg., i know a lot of people regard the Brodix T1 by M2 as being a quality piece. www.m2race.com
Did you get my e-mail about the Torana?
Cheers
Is this 700hp number realistic? Is it realistic with a hydraulic roller?
Just asking 'cause as you would know, hydraulic rollers aren't to common in Aust.
Does he already have 23 deg pistons or are 18 or 15 degree heads an option? Whats the rest of the combination and intended application?
If you must stick with 23 deg., i know a lot of people regard the Brodix T1 by M2 as being a quality piece. www.m2race.com
Did you get my e-mail about the Torana?
Cheers
Hi Fatman
Hi Fatman
The 700 HP would be maybe a bit too adventurous i would say
At the moment he has a 500 hp 350 with Trickflow twisted heads and he wanted me to up the compression a but
So on opening the engine I found he has hyper piston with 4 valve reliefs (thats 10 CC's) and they are in the wrong place for the twisted wedge heads
So I sugessted we build the 400 he has sitting around and suggested with advice from nathan higgins that the Trick flows get tossed
This is my first build of a 400 Chev so im felling around for a combo
Already decided on a Scat 4340 forged crank 3.750 plus the Scat 6 " H Beams and probably CP Pistons, c/r will probably be around 13:1 and he already has the victor manifold and BG Race demon
The Heads are my only concern as I would like to be able to get a set straight from the box and use them, you know, Already with good flow. And have you seen the choices for chev heads theres hundreds
So maybe 600 HP is really feasable, c
The 700 HP would be maybe a bit too adventurous i would say
At the moment he has a 500 hp 350 with Trickflow twisted heads and he wanted me to up the compression a but
So on opening the engine I found he has hyper piston with 4 valve reliefs (thats 10 CC's) and they are in the wrong place for the twisted wedge heads
So I sugessted we build the 400 he has sitting around and suggested with advice from nathan higgins that the Trick flows get tossed
This is my first build of a 400 Chev so im felling around for a combo
Already decided on a Scat 4340 forged crank 3.750 plus the Scat 6 " H Beams and probably CP Pistons, c/r will probably be around 13:1 and he already has the victor manifold and BG Race demon
The Heads are my only concern as I would like to be able to get a set straight from the box and use them, you know, Already with good flow. And have you seen the choices for chev heads theres hundreds
So maybe 600 HP is really feasable, c
If you are sticking with a 23* head, All-Pro http://www.allproheads.com/ makes a good high port head that is capable of over 700hp. They will need ported for that 700hp, but they can do it. These will need offset rockers and long valves etc.
Here's a link to Ron's, he ports these All-Pro's http://www.ronsportingservice.com/products-allpro.htm. These should "get er done". I've seen em over 700hp on a much smaller motor than your's.
Rick
Here's a link to Ron's, he ports these All-Pro's http://www.ronsportingservice.com/products-allpro.htm. These should "get er done". I've seen em over 700hp on a much smaller motor than your's.
Rick
Rick360 wrote:If you are sticking with a 23* head, All-Pro http://www.allproheads.com/ makes a good high port head that is capable of over 700hp. They will need ported for that 700hp, but they can do it. These will need offset rockers and long valves etc.
Here's a link to Ron's, he ports these All-Pro's http://www.ronsportingservice.com/products-allpro.htm. These should "get er done". I've seen em over 700hp on a much smaller motor than your's.
Rick
Ron is very good, seen him do some really great heads and great results. The All Pro 245's are an amazing head.
Rick360 where are you from? I'm from the Metro east of St. Louis, Belleville IL right next to Scott Air Force Base.
Floyd.
Re: fkned
The shop I was working at went out of biz,he works for Larry Morgan now.But the heads flowed in the 325 or so range I think it was 6yrs ago,we glued up the floors to make the runners fairly small,so street use is possible if wanted.We sold them to Hamner Racing in Alabama I believe.He could help you more then me with the hp #'s possible w/their combo's.jdeleon wrote:FKNED
Who was doing these heads and what kind of flow #s and hp were they producing?Fkned wrote:That's a lot of power if you mean out of the box unported.If you mean cnc'ed ready to bolt on then maybe try the pontiac 867 casting from Brodix.It's a raised runner head that a shop I workrd at had very good success running it in All Pro series.
I'm asking because a dirt modified engine customer brought me a couple of unfinished heads (Brodix-Pontiac 23DEG) to use in place of the iron darts we have been using.
I need to decide whether to stick to the iron or go to the alum.