dart little chief vs. sb 2.2

phoenix · Post by **phoenix** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:23 am

I was just on Dart's web site looking at the little chief. They explain it as the ultimate SBC head. They make a manifold for it as well. Got me thinking, what would be the better head? Lets say 396 cu.in, single carb, all out comp type engine. Dart or SB2.2 ? If the little chief's valve train is any thing like the big chief then the SB2.2 has a better layout. It also was designed for a single carb. On the other hand, the Dart exhaust is evenly spaced, less head gasket failures. The Dart was also designed exclusively for drag racing. So, any takers?

Darin Morgan · Post by **Darin Morgan** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:07 pm

phoenix wrote:I was just on Dart's web site looking at the little chief. They explain it as the ultimate SBC head. They make a manifold for it as well. Got me thinking, what would be the better head? Lets say 396 cu.in, single carb, all out comp type engine. Dart or SB2.2 ? If the little chief's valve train is any thing like the big chief then the SB2.2 has a better layout. It also was designed for a single carb. On the other hand, the Dart exhaust is evenly spaced, less head gasket failures. The Dart was also designed exclusively for drag racing. So, any takers?

The Dart Little Chief head will SMOKE the SB2.2 head on an all out engine with a large bore ( 4.185 ) and two carburetors. The Dart head can make an EASY 1000+hp on a 396cid engine. The little Chiefs valve train is not bad in comparison to the SB2.2. You have to have a special lifter bore layout for the Little Chief heads by the way. You cant just bolt them to a conventional lifter layout. I have done a LOT ( 70+ sets) of SB2.2 heads for a lot of different applications and they too, work very well. I would prefer the SB2.2 head for engines in the 358cid range that must utilize a single four barrel carburetor. I have converted a couple of land speed guys over to the SB2.2 heads from the 18s and 15s. The result was about 35 mph!

For an "all out" comp engine, The little chief heads would be my only choice for both single and dual carb applications. An " all out" 396cid engine with two carbs would make right at 1080hp.

Harbinger · Post by **Harbinger** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:56 pm

Darin,

When you say,
"You have to have a special lifter bore layout for the Little Chief heads by the way. You cant just bolt them to a conventional lifter layout."

What exactly are you saying there? I would expect an offset lifter but what else is necessary in running the Little Chief.

Thanks.

Darin Morgan · Post by **Darin Morgan** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:54 pm

Harbinger wrote:Darin,

When you say,
"You have to have a special lifter bore layout for the Little Chief heads by the way. You cant just bolt them to a conventional lifter layout."

What exactly are you saying there? I would expect an offset lifter but what else is necessary in running the Little Chief.

Thanks.

You cant just use offset lifters. It takes a whole differant cam " lobe layout" and lifter bore locations.

phoenix · Post by **phoenix** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:12 pm

Thanks Darin. Holy cow,1080 hp. About the revised lifter location, Darts web site says they can supply the correct block. My guess is they have already moved the lifter bores. I suppose a pro truck/trans am block would work as well. Hey Darin, how much of a HP loss would a single carb be? also, do the little chiefs have port plugs in the intake like the SB2.2?

cboggs · Post by **cboggs** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:24 pm

Darin,

If we are talking about an NHRA "legal" comp engine, .. are the Dart's
legal for that class? I'm assuming you mean an all out engine, ..
not a comp legal class engine.

So, .. if one wanted to build a 350" - 400" small block for a bracket dragster, SB2.2 with a single dominator, .. how much power Darin??

I've had several NASCAR take off SB2.2's through here going on
small block drag car, .. I think the exhaust port is big, .. Darin, ..
your take on that???

Thanks,

Curtis

ChrisU · Post by **ChrisU** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:18 pm

Darin can you elaborate on the lifter bore locations?

I was planning a Little Chief 440 small block. I did notice that the Iron Eagle block I received had no lifter 'bosses' but instead had square Rails running from front to rear so the bores could be placed anywhere. But, you can only move things around so much in terms of spacing..... especially with big dia. lifter bores. What are we talking here???

I already stabbed lifter bores in the block for a .904 bushed lifter, for a current wedge head. Am I hosed on this block now for a little chief head???

shawn · Post by **shawn** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:35 pm

Curtis,
I think in the altered classes (a/a, b/a, c/a) and the dragster classes (a/d,b/d,c/d) you can run any brand of head, it doesn't have to be produced by an oem.In the "econo" classes (not really sure how "econo" they are anymore!) you have to run a specified head, and mods are limited, as well as just a single four carb.They seem to change these rules around a bit, though.
Shawn

phoenix · Post by **phoenix** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:06 am

ChrisU, did you have to order the block like that or was it a little chief specific block? Sounds alot like the Pro Truck/ Trans Am block from GM.

ChrisU · Post by **ChrisU** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:17 pm

Didn't order it that way, I figured that's how Dart is making them now... it's a good idea, but it does add some weight.

Harbinger · Post by **Harbinger** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:08 pm

Thanks for the info Darin. Now I can imagine why the Little chief is such a good head.

So the Iron Eagles are coming without lifter bores? Wow, that does add a chunk of weight but it's not anything a little CNC machining couldn't take care of. Which reminds me... one of the race teams -I belive it was Hendricks- was featured in CNC Magazine, a Haas publication, and one of the engine blocks shown fixtured-up in a Haas horizontal had fully profiled lifter bosses. Had me thinking that they might be getting their SB2 blocks without lifter holes cast in.

Chuck

John Haskell · Post by **John Haskell** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:36 am

Last month I had been talking with Ken Sperry at GM. One of the topics had to do with GM's old 'cube' head for the splay valve head no longer available. Ken was talking about being at the race track a way back and noticed the little cheif head with a bow tie on it. He thought that was a bad deal, cause he would have known if permission was given to use the bow tie. Apparently it wasn't. He figured GM wasn't racing against GM products in that deal.

What is going on now there is, they are re-introducing the splay valve head with all of the new model revisions that will take out the huge amount of re-work that those of us know about, allowing a more user friendly head. It's is being rolled over a ton & valve angle revisions apparently. -------- Austrailia is the driving force of interest for the head and so it will be available here as well I'm sure. Figure any advantage of the dart head will go away when they release the new part. Also, the same for the 15* head. It is rolled additionally as well & has uppdated models to make the end product an easier package.

His only regret is that he is stuck behind a desk instead of being in the lab.

Fatman · Post by **Fatman** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:03 pm

John
Any idea who in Australia is pushing GM for these heads?

cboggs · Post by **cboggs** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:42 pm

Fatman wrote:John
Any idea who in Australia is pushing GM for these heads?

I would guess Pro stock, .. it's small block down there, ..

John, I'd like to get a set of the new splayed valve heads, .. any idea
when they'll be available???

Curtis

John Haskell · Post by **John Haskell** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:20 pm

On the availability for those new GM parts, I really don't know because I didn't ask. I was inquiring about the big Chev small chamber, iron head that was apparently built with updates for the Stock Eliminator class, and I'm trying to get a hold of a pair.

Besides, we covered a wide range of matter then. The reason the splay valve was brought up came from an upcoming project in furthering the splay valve. The recent development at GM will ease all that however, my interest of this is still a while away. I would imagine Darin would be further along on knowledge here with R&M's relationship w/GM.

Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

dart little chief vs. sb 2.2

dart little chief vs. sb 2.2

Re: dart little chief vs. sb 2.2

heads

Re: heads