Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

Hi all.
Been looking around for wheel nuts and saw some thats anodised in various colours. Made of aluminium.
Can they be used safely on a street car? Or is it just that bling factor for shows?
Price wise they are little bit more than chrome steel nuts.

Chevyfreak.

Absolutely Not on a street car in regards to "should", regarding "can", maybe, but why?
Also remember, at only 200F, alum has almost lost 50% of its strength.

Was one of those wondering questions, so i asked. i have always used steel nuts. Got some chrome bulge nuts eventually.
Interesting on how many there were, loads of different types, shapes and colours. By itself it looks cool but wasn't what i had in mind for my current build.
I'm old school so not up to date on all the new things in regards to the modern motoring scene. Basically not a ricer.

Chevyfreak.

?
Maybe the anodized nuts just have a thin shell over a steel core.

Kevin Johnson wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:17 am ?
Maybe the anodized nuts just have a thin shell over a steel core.

Maybe. Never really looked in detail. Sealed in that plastic holder. Just saw it says aluminium.

Chevyfreak.

j-c-c wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:00 am Absolutely Not on a street car in regards to "should", regarding "can", maybe, but why?
Also remember, at only 200F, alum has almost lost 50% of its strength.

Factory installed on many Porsche's since the 80's. 928's and 911's. And being that there are many different grades and heat treatments stating that aluminum has lost 50% of it's strength at 200 degrees is kinda misleading. What grade and heat treatment are you referring too?

Chris_Hamilton wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:38 pm

j-c-c wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:00 am Absolutely Not on a street car in regards to "should", regarding "can", maybe, but why?
Also remember, at only 200F, alum has almost lost 50% of its strength.

Factory installed on many Porsche's since the 80's. 928's and 911's. And being that there are many different grades and heat treatments stating that aluminum has lost 50% of it's strength at 200 degrees is kinda misleading. What grade and heat treatment are you referring too?

The alum alloy doesn't matter much in alum loss of strength thermally, and I think because I mentioned a "percentage", with a "qualifier", I did not intentionally nor inadvertently mislead any careful reader. The heat treatments you mention primarily only increases tested/rated strengths, does little to minimize the loss of strength with increase of operating temps. Can I speak for every grade and heat treatment on the planet, no, nor would I intend to, but my guess is, in order not mislead anybody here, the OP, is not buying that grade, if it exists.

We didn't even get into the loosening/re-tightening potential fatigue issues with alum at max tightening torque levels, that if occurred and not detected, results in almost catastrophic failure when on the road.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aluminu ... uts+review

The reason aluminum (aluminium) covers popped into my head was because of the recently dismissed lawsuit against Ford with respect to so-called swollen lug nuts.

https://www.autonews.com/fixed-ops-jour ... dealership

j-c-c wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:07 pm

Chris_Hamilton wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:38 pm

j-c-c wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:00 am Absolutely Not on a street car in regards to "should", regarding "can", maybe, but why?
Also remember, at only 200F, alum has almost lost 50% of its strength.

Factory installed on many Porsche's since the 80's. 928's and 911's. And being that there are many different grades and heat treatments stating that aluminum has lost 50% of it's strength at 200 degrees is kinda misleading. What grade and heat treatment are you referring too?

The alum alloy doesn't matter much in alum loss of strength thermally, and I think because I mentioned a "percentage", with a "qualifier", I did not intentionally nor inadvertently mislead any careful reader. The heat treatments you mention primarily only increases tested/rated strengths, does little to minimize the loss of strength with increase of operating temps. Can I speak for every grade and heat treatment on the planet, no, nor would I intend to, but my guess is, in order not mislead anybody here, the OP, is not buying that grade, if it exists.

We didn't even get into the loosening/re-tightening potential fatigue issues with alum at max tightening torque levels, that if occurred and not detected, results in almost catastrophic failure when on the road.

Not trying to get into an argument but I have to go back to the Porsche Factory installing aluminum lug nuts on their vehicles. 928 and 911's (especially with Fuchs wheels equipped cars) both. If the potential for failure was so high why would they do that? The liability issue alone should have stopped them. Yet they did it, so that leads me to believe they were not concerned with that. Oh and I think aluminum loses half it's stregth at 600 degrees not 200 degrees. Big difference.
And would not a properly engineered part take into account the properties of aluminum when engineering the part. So perhaps those lug nuts strength was doubled (in comparison to steel)to take into account the loss of strength when heated?
All that being said obviously cheap Chinese made AL lug nuts are not a good idea. But properly engineered ones do exist and have been proven to work on street cars.

Aluminium is so passé.

https://www.google.com/search?q=titanium+lug+nuts

Chris, no need for an argument, but I could/like say I miss stated "F" for "C" but that would be incorrect, if 50% is indeed the magic number in this discussion, the link below is close to 200C or 392F, which I think I/we can agree is outside almost any street encountered lug nut concern. However the linked graph does show dramatic heat induced mechanical loss of properties, almost independent of alloys. My background is in overhead entertainment structures, and we go to great lengths to avoid any temperature exceeding 200F from nearby lighting sources, pyro, etc. but there are other concerns such as rigging, wiring, etc.

In this case, My concern is excessive, regarding heat, I stand corrected, and your valid Porsche example still holds water.

To get the last word in, If I was OP, I would still avoid the alum nuts,

http://britishreactionresearch.blogspot ... tubes.html

Porsche did use the aluminum ones from '65 to '95, IIRC. BUT, if you race in SCCA in anything other than a stock class, you'll need steel open center lug nuts.

j-c-c wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 pm
To get the last word in, If I was OP, I would still avoid the alum nuts,

Dont worry. I got chrome steel nuts.(more correct for what i'm doing anyway.)
Was just a general question in regards to alum nuts.
Thanks for the info.

Kevin Johnson wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:11 pm Aluminium is so passé.

https://www.google.com/search?q=titanium+lug+nuts

Dont even wanna know what they are gonna cost after exchange rate and importing charges and shipping, think by then i can buy another car
Stainless wheelnuts is about 3 times the cost of the chrome nuts, but s/s does last waaay longer.

Chevyfreak.