rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

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The Radius Kid
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by The Radius Kid »

Kevin Johnson wrote::lol:
Yes, I studied theoretical linguistics and spent a good deal of time with the history of words. The two sources you have were not researched very well. Why would I say this? The inventor of the electric "motor" himself uses the term "engine" - shame, shame, eh? :lol: I think what has happened over time with the terms 'engine' and 'motor' is that for whatever reasons, perhaps aesthetics or a desire by some for succinctness and rigid definition, modern viewpoints are being exported backwards and revising history. Rawls (see also Goodman) had a term for this: reflective equilibrium.
I understand what you're saying,but it seems the ICE was invented before the electric motor.
The way I see it,motors derive their motive energy from external sources - air,liquid,electricity,etc.
Internal combustion engines create their motive energy from internal,chemical reactions.
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

The Radius Kid wrote:
Kevin Johnson wrote::lol:
Yes, I studied theoretical linguistics and spent a good deal of time with the history of words. The two sources you have were not researched very well. Why would I say this? The inventor of the electric "motor" himself uses the term "engine" - shame, shame, eh? :lol: I think what has happened over time with the terms 'engine' and 'motor' is that for whatever reasons, perhaps aesthetics or a desire by some for succinctness and rigid definition, modern viewpoints are being exported backwards and revising history. Rawls (see also Goodman) had a term for this: reflective equilibrium.
I understand what you're saying,but it seems the ICE was invented before the electric motor.
The way I see it,motors derive their motive energy from external sources - air,liquid,electricity,etc.
Internal combustion engines create their motive energy from internal,chemical reactions.
I think it is fine to justify usage based on a set of criteria. My point is that some diligence in researching the topic shows the terms were not originally distinguished like this in the case of electric motor versus engine.

Here is another example of engine being used with respect to what is commonly termed a motor by none other than Michael Faraday (letter 2321): http://books.google.com/books?id=iX194m ... ne&f=false
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by The Radius Kid »

Kevin Johnson wrote:I think it is fine to justify usage based on a set of criteria. My point is that some diligence in researching the topic shows the terms were not originally distinguished like this in the case of electric motor versus engine.

Here is another example of engine being used with respect to what is commonly termed a motor by none other than Michael Faraday (letter 2321): http://books.google.com/books?id=iX194m ... ne&f=false
I'm not arguing that,I'm just saying that it annoys me.
I can see where the initial "blurring of terms" came from seeing as the electric motor was created to do a prime moving job similar to the ICE.
It kind of reminds me of the steam engine.
It is a piston design,but is the name "engine" a misnomer or properly applied?
I do tend to agree with the comment I read about electric motors being a subset of ICE technology though.
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by Fahlin Racing »

Wasn't steel head a real cheap beer at one time? I could be wrong on the name lol
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by 77cruiser »

I have a set of iron heads, for sale, but now I am going to sale a set of steel heads. Then I'll put them up for sell. :lol:
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

77cruiser wrote:I have a set of iron heads, for sale, but now I am going to sale a set of steel heads. Then I'll put them up for sell. :lol:
You fencin' your steal heads?
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by Truckedup »

So when someone has forged Chevy Rod and says the casting number is XXXX,you must really blow up #-o I'm no pro engine guy but in 50 years of messing with engines I never heard anyone say "steel head" . But...are some Pontiac cast cranks steel or iron?
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by rfoll »

Pearlitic or malleable cast iron for some Pontiac rods and cranks, but the steelhead tastes better.
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by Krooser »

77cruiser wrote:I have a set of iron heads, for sale, but now I am going to sale a set of steel heads. Then I'll put them up for sell. :lol:
Do they "needs restored"?
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by 77cruiser »

Naw was going to put on my CAMERO wit the full race cam.
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by rfoll »

The head gasket is blown, just needs a new one.
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by user-23911 »

I'm dragging this one up again.

When it comes to the internet and "steel cranks".....they're ALL forged when in fact they're not.
So? how do you tell 100% the difference between a "forged" steel crank and a "cast" steel crank.
Apart from the obvious that is.......a casting is cast in sand so it's surface where it's not machined resembles sand.

Scat make both sorts of course and have photos on their site, unfortunately the photos aren't very good.

I come across this problem nearly all the time with Japanese cranks.
All of them are steel......with the exception of a few older ones which are iron.

BTW I'm not interested in "I've been told".
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by user-23911 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfZds5VPMkQ

That's a good one?

It's a "forged crank but it's got casting numbers in it?
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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by dave brode »

joe 90 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfZds5VPMkQ

That's a good one?

It's a "forged crank but it's got casting numbers in it?
Hmm. "Billets" aside, don't typical "forged" cranks [and pistons] start as a casting that is later hit with a die or multiple dies? If so, is the number created during the casting or forging process?

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Re: rant: why do people call iron heads steel heads?

Post by dave brode »

On that subject, aren't "billets" actually a casting? So, if true, doesn't a billet crank start from a casting?
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