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Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Tech questions that don't fit above forums

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GLHS60
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by GLHS60 »

Possibly this is for 4 cyl Engines??

Ford has issues with some V6 Engines.

Apparently their internal water pumps leak coolant into the crank case.

Thanks
Randy

https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/don ... some-fords
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peejay
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by peejay »

GLHS60 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:02 am Possibly this is for 4 cyl Engines??

Ford has issues with some V6 Engines.

Apparently their internal water pumps leak coolant into the crank case.

Thanks
Randy

https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/don ... some-fords
No different than any other engine with a timing chain driven water pump. Chrysler, Nissan, GM, and more do it.
Kevin Johnson
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by Kevin Johnson »

D1688CF7-BAE0-4100-8C8D-122E60DF38B1.jpeg

https://www.fordescape.org/threads/fiel ... 378/page-4
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GLHS60
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by GLHS60 »

Chrysler cured them selves of this dangerous design with the Pentastar V6

I think Ford didn't have internal pumps with the Modular V8 but did with their later V6 and 4 cyls.

I think their new Coyote V8's went back to an external design.

I think GM did then didn't with the Quad 4 style engines.

A google search indicates many catastrophic Engine failures of many makes with internal pumps.

I personally think there is no logical reason to have an internal water pump.

There may be reasons, just not logical ones for unknowing owners facing a large repair bill.

Thanks
Randy
peejay wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:46 pm
GLHS60 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:02 am Possibly this is for 4 cyl Engines??

Ford has issues with some V6 Engines.

Apparently their internal water pumps leak coolant into the crank case.

Thanks
Randy

https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/don ... some-fords
No different than any other engine with a timing chain driven water pump. Chrysler, Nissan, GM, and more do it.
Sherwood Park
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
GLHS60
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by GLHS60 »

Interesting, leaking coolant into the cylinder bores, possibly a marginal head gasket design??

Curious if the electric pump is instead of or in addition to a typical Engine driven water pump??

I just watched a vid where a Ford 2.5, 4 cyl had an external "fan belt" driven pump exchanged.

There appear to be a few possible combinations at Ford??

Thanks
Randy


Kevin Johnson wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:38 pm D1688CF7-BAE0-4100-8C8D-122E60DF38B1.jpeg


https://www.fordescape.org/threads/fiel ... 378/page-4
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peejay
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by peejay »

GLHS60 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:27 pm Interesting, leaking coolant into the cylinder bores, possibly a marginal head gasket design??
I have a highly turbocharged 83mm bore Volvo. I have a head gasket failure, and while I have the head off I am going to shore up the block by hammering shims into the relief slots cut into the deck between the bores, because the blocks are known to crack there. Indeed, the ring wear pattern on the bores suggests that the block is flexing to an incredible degree! I should take pictures tomorrow.

From what I have been able to gather, the 1.5 and 1.6 Ecoboosts have the same failure point, and it sounds like the 2.0 Ecoboosts do too. The block cracks at the top, resulting in coolant loss and combustion gas pressurization.

I haven't watched the video, because I'm not going to listen to some guy yakking in front of a camera for six minutes when I could read a few paragraphs in less time.
GLHS60
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by GLHS60 »

I'm not sure if you're criticizing my post or not and I don't know anything about Volvo's.

The "leaking coolant into the cylinder bores" came directly from the Ford bulletin Kevin posted.

It only took me a moment to read.

I read everything he posts.

And all you post.

Thanks
Randy
peejay wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:51 pm
GLHS60 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:27 pm Interesting, leaking coolant into the cylinder bores, possibly a marginal head gasket design??
I have a highly turbocharged 83mm bore Volvo. I have a head gasket failure, and while I have the head off I am going to shore up the block by hammering shims into the relief slots cut into the deck between the bores, because the blocks are known to crack there. Indeed, the ring wear pattern on the bores suggests that the block is flexing to an incredible degree! I should take pictures tomorrow.

From what I have been able to gather, the 1.5 and 1.6 Ecoboosts have the same failure point, and it sounds like the 2.0 Ecoboosts do too. The block cracks at the top, resulting in coolant loss and combustion gas pressurization.

I haven't watched the video, because I'm not going to listen to some guy yakking in front of a camera for six minutes when I could read a few paragraphs in less time.
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by pdq67 »

Since WE are on the topic of Ford screw-ups, how are they doing with the 12,000,000,000 or so(??) little cars with the bad trans in them they sold before killing the transmission, IF Ford did indeed stop making/selling that transmission design??

Their Focus and Festiva cars if not mistaken??

Seems the cars with the bad tranny design were sold from 2001 or 2 up until 2012 or 13.....

A lot of them out there.............

pdq67
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by Kevin Johnson »

pdq67 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:55 am Since WE are on the topic of Ford screw-ups, how are they doing with the 12,000,000,000 or so(??) little cars with the bad trans in them they sold before killing the transmission, IF Ford did indeed stop making/selling that transmission design??

Their Focus and Festiva cars if not mistaken??

Seems the cars with the bad tranny design were sold from 2001 or 2 up until 2012 or 13.....

A lot of them out there.............

pdq67
Snuggle in for some videos. Steve Lehto has been very active in that area:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CH ... CAw&uact=5
peejay
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by peejay »

pdq67 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:55 am Since WE are on the topic of Ford screw-ups, how are they doing with the 12,000,000,000 or so(??) little cars with the bad trans in them they sold before killing the transmission, IF Ford did indeed stop making/selling that transmission design??

Their Focus and Festiva cars if not mistaken??

Seems the cars with the bad tranny design were sold from 2001 or 2 up until 2012 or 13.....

A lot of them out there.............

pdq67
They are newer than that.

I'm driving a Focus with the twin clutch transmission every day right now while my Volvo is laid up. It drives "different" than normal twin clutch automatics, it feels more like a manual trans than an automatic. Probably because it has dry clutches instead of wet clutches.

The story I hear and believe is that people who drive with bad habits you can get with automatics, like constantly creeping forward at lights a little bit 3-4 times before the light turns green, are the people who have all of the shuddering trans problems. That will burn up the clutch in a manual trans too! If you drive it like it's a manual and just stay stopped after you stop, and go when you want to go, they work just fine.

I have a feeling that nobody in Ford's road testing facility drives like idiots so this issue did not come up during durability testing. Just like a lot of the issues with Diesel emissions contols are due to people leaving their trucks idling all the time while they go into a store, or driving around town like it's a really big scooter, and never working the truck hard often enough.

It's also definitely not a little car. The Focus is about the size that a Taurus used to be! If I remember right the RS model is pushing 3500lb+ too.
Last edited by peejay on Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by peejay »

GLHS60 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:49 pm I'm not sure if you're criticizing my post or not and I don't know anything about Volvo's.

The "leaking coolant into the cylinder bores" came directly from the Ford bulletin Kevin posted.
I've seen lots of imagery of Ford engine blocks cracking out on top, like Volvos used to, is what I'm getting at. Acts just like a failed head gasket.
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by GLHS60 »

Peejay, honestly I thought you were joking when you said you were going to:

"shore up the block by hammering shims into the relief slots cut into the deck between the bores"

I thought you were quoting some obscure internet post by someone after I posted Fords statement:

"Interesting, leaking coolant into the cylinder bores" possibly a marginal head gasket design??

I guess its worse than a marginal design if the cylinders are cracking.

Still no disrespect intended, I clearly misunderstood your post :oops:

I'm a great fan of Turbocharged 4 cylinders and my preference are the ancient Chrysler 2.2/2.5's.

These are only SOHC 8 V Engines but have proven to be extremely durable over the decades.

As there are no aftermarket parts available we have to rely on junkyard and homemade stuff.

I only run 24 PSI but many run into the 40 PSI range like my internet pal James Reeves'.

Vid below of his Drag Week Dodge Omni GLH Turbo, interesting durability comment at the end!!

Thanks
Randy

https://youtu.be/1r6NLSzI0XU


peejay wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:45 am
GLHS60 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:49 pm I'm not sure if you're criticizing my post or not and I don't know anything about Volvo's.

The "leaking coolant into the cylinder bores" came directly from the Ford bulletin Kevin posted.
I've seen lots of imagery of Ford engine blocks cracking out on top, like Volvos used to, is what I'm getting at. Acts just like a failed head gasket.
Sherwood Park
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by pdq67 »

GLHS60 wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:07 pm Peejay, honestly I thought you were joking when you said you were going to:

"shore up the block by hammering shims into the relief slots cut into the deck between the bores"

I thought you were quoting some obscure internet post by someone after I posted Fords statement:

"Interesting, leaking coolant into the cylinder bores" possibly a marginal head gasket design??

I guess its worse than a marginal design if the cylinders are cracking.

Still no disrespect intended, I clearly misunderstood your post :oops:

I'm a great fan of Turbocharged 4 cylinders and my preference are the ancient Chrysler 2.2/2.5's.

These are only SOHC 8 V Engines but have proven to be extremely durable over the decades.

As there are no aftermarket parts available we have to rely on junkyard and homemade stuff.

I only run 24 PSI but many run into the 40 PSI range like my internet pal James Reeves'.

Vid below of his Drag Week Dodge Omni GLH Turbo, interesting durability comment at the end!!

Thanks
Randy

https://youtu.be/1r6NLSzI0XU


peejay wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:45 am
GLHS60 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:49 pm I'm not sure if you're criticizing my post or not and I don't know anything about Volvo's.

The "leaking coolant into the cylinder bores" came directly from the Ford bulletin Kevin posted.
I've seen lots of imagery of Ford engine blocks cracking out on top, like Volvos used to, is what I'm getting at. Acts just like a failed head gasket.
I want to say that stock, those engines top-ends gave up at something like 60,000 miles or so if not mistaken.

Unless I am thinking about the Omni/Horizon non-OHC heads here IF they made the two designs at the same time.

pdq67
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Re: Ford's Mystery Fix Explained

Post by GLHS60 »

The original Omni/Horizon Engine was a VW type 1.7L OHC and they had some issues.

And a rarely used Peogeot 1.6L OHV Engine as well, bulletproof but under powered.

Also, K cars and minivans had a larger, problematic Mitsu 2.6 OHC available.

The SOHC Chrysler 2.5 and 2.2/2.5 Turbo Engines eliminated any need for it.

Once Chrysler got their own 2.2 in production for 1981 all was good.

Little wonder as it was based on the old reliable Slant Six.!!

I think of the 2.2/2.5 Chrysler as the SBC of the 4 cylinders.

Tough, cheap and reliable, pick all three.

Thanks
Randy


pdq67 wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:54 pm
I want to say that stock, those engines top-ends gave up at something like 60,000 miles or so if not mistaken.

Unless I am thinking about the Omni/Horizon non-OHC heads here IF they made the two designs at the same time.
pdq67
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
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