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Vizard vs Foxwell

Tech questions that don't fit above forums

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Low&slow
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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by Low&slow » Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:02 am

I have one they can use :)

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by Dutchman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:04 pm

CamKing wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:43 pm
SchmidtMotorWorks wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:27 pm

With regards to lines of code...
I'm am talking specifically about the code to simulate the dynamics.
To do that on a par with modern standards is beyond what one person could code unless they dedicated their life to it.
There was no simulation in Harvey's software.
It was just for designing a lift curve. It couldn't tell you how that lift curve would act. It couldn't tell you where it would make power to. It couldn't tell you what RPM it would keep the valvetrain stable to. You could give it limits(max Velocity, max acceleration, seating velocity), but you had to rely on your own experience on setting those limits.
This isn't my wheelhouse,but I do know Harvy crane and john Andrews were friends,John is a sharp cat in my book, his parts in many venues are second to none. Are people using his cam software and does it still fare in today's builds.

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 pm

Dutchman wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:04 pm

This isn't my wheelhouse,but I do know Harvy crane and john Andrews were friends,John is a sharp cat in my book, his parts in many venues are second to none. Are people using his cam software and does it still fare in today's builds.
The software Andrews has is super simple.
It has one clever feature that it fits an arc in the lobe to control concavity.

It is easy to use but doesn't make very smooth acceleration curves for some cases.
This is to be expected from a software that uses piece-wise polynomials, nothing wrong with what they did, it is just the way it is for that method.
http://www.schmidtmotorworks.com Prototypes, Tooling, Molds.

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by CamKing » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:29 am

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:53 pm

The software Andrews has is super simple.
It has one clever feature that it fits an arc in the lobe to control concavity.

It is easy to use but doesn't make very smooth acceleration curves for some cases.
This is to be expected from a software that uses piece-wise polynomials, nothing wrong with what they did, it is just the way it is for that method.
I don't know anyone that uses it, but I'm sure some do.
He showed it to me, decades ago, and was underwhelmed.
It's just a curve generator, and has nothing to do with what the engine wants.
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Stan Weiss
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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by Stan Weiss » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:04 pm

Mike,
So for street use and street / strip and bracket drag racing where peak HP is between 5500 and 7500 depending on application. What difference are we talking about HP and durability whys?

Stan
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Do you use engine simulation software that uses cylinder head flow files?
We have a package of more than 3025 DFW or FLW Files

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by shoedoos » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:49 am

Just in case anybody wanted to know the backstory to the facebook interaction between Fowell and Vizard, here's the link

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by hoffman900 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:31 pm

shoedoos wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:49 am
Just in case anybody wanted to know the backstory to the facebook interaction between Fowell and Vizard, here's the link
Chris Uratchko and Jay Wiles are the only two that look good after that disaster.

Everyone in there is a grown man. Most are 50 and older. You would have thought the average age was about 12yo after reading that. So stupid. Someone I knew once said “I came for the cars but stayed for the people”. I disagree with that. Most in motorsports are man babies with large egos. The older I get, the more I relate to the guy who just shows up to the track, minds his business, kicks ass, and goes home.
-Bob

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by Geoff2 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:28 am

So, how did Chris & Jay 'look good'. Did they test their cams & beat DVs numbers?

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by Elroy » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:14 pm

Geoff2 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:28 am
So, how did Chris & Jay 'look good'. Did they test their cams & beat DVs numbers?
I just beat through that conversation using the link provided. Chris U looked good by staying civil. Not tooting his own horn like Vizzerr despite being the most accomplished engine builder in that group and even offering a breaking down of events, along with a reason why you should study them. Jay Wiles looked good by not taking the bait and agreeing to disagree. There were no results offered to disagree with that I could see only claims. An offer to do an argue-off makes little sense anyway.
Geoff2 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:28 am
Did they test their cams & beat DVs numbers?
It is a length conversation but I must have missed Vd's numbers. Was there a video or sheet posted somewhere?

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"A delusion of grandeur is a false or unusual belief about one's greatness"

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by shoedoos » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:48 pm

This whole exercise reminds me of this.......and PS: when is this challenge going to happen?


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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by Elroy » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:40 pm

shoedoos wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:48 pm
and PS: when is this challenge going to happen?
When is the talk-off gonna happen? Or when is a cam competition going to happen? I'd say never to both. In all honesty i have never heard of either party so its neither here or there to me . The truth is there are plenty of engine competitions these days to man up and enter to show the world if you have stumbled onto or possess something someone else doesn't, if you have the stones to. Voila! argument settled

PS. Enjoyed the video/

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by paulzig » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:48 am

Mr.Vizard has plenty of fans crowd fund for the dyno sessions and purchase cams from each vendor as a customer and test vs your own specced one... Or maybe the vendors will gift one for testing. If you are willing to pay someone 1000 for a seminar speech that still wont give results you might as well fill in recommendation sheets and buy some cams...

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Re: Vizard vs Foxwell

Post by bob460 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:03 pm

At his age and all the health issue's that Vizard has had of late, don't know why he his even bothering with a challenge like this...........more important things in live to worry about. #-o

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