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Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:37 pm
by Kevin Johnson
Here is an interesting 3d rendering of the original Benz -- it appears that a twisted belt is used.

https://zaneliu94.github.io/benzmotorwagen/

I am curious as to when the presence of an open or standard differential became common with dual chain drive versus a spool type.

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:16 am
by Kevin Johnson
GLHS60 wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 3:04 am I'm certainly no expert but I'm positive the original Benz incorporated a differential.
Yes, it does -- it is a pair of bevel gears above the motor which then goes to the belt which reverses the rotation. Bevel gears are still a differential, just not an open one.

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 3:56 pm
by Kevin Johnson
Yes, you are correct -- there is a spider gear g^2 constrained somehow in the forward hub. I thought to locate the US Patent and look at the multiple drawings there.* However the patent verbiage is contradictory to examples of the motorcar and even the patent drawings themselves and I wonder if people chose to simply leave the spider gear out. I say this because it states that one of the drive chains to the rear wheels needs to be crossed due to the counter rotation of the second bevel gear and I have not observed this anywhere.

* The German Patent shown on the Daimler-Benz website is no help.

Here is the link to the US patent: https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=003 ... =PN/385087
Benz differential.jpg

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 5:26 pm
by Kevin Johnson
The check is in the mail. :lol:

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:48 pm
by Kevin Johnson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL_mJeb6O04

No crossed chain so I think the differential has been disabled.

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:37 am
by Kevin Johnson
GLHS60 wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:59 am I'm not sure what you mean, "crossed chain"??

Did you notice the "crossed" drive belt??

Thanks
Randy
https://patents.google.com/patent/US385 ... =385%2c087

The crossed drive belt is also not correctly illustrated in the patent. There is a separate visual and verbal description of the drive chains.

The illustrated front hub differential uses two equal diameter bevel gears communicating through a single small bevel gear which would generate mutually counter rotating drive shafts.

I think that Mercedes does not present the whole patent as this would kind of jump out to a mechanical engineer. The important part is that it is a motor driven horseless carriage.

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:06 pm
by Kevin Johnson
Aber die sind doch Motoren!

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:38 pm
by Kevin Johnson
Das war kein Elektromotor.

Karl Friedrich Benz war ein deutscher Motorenbauer und Automobilingenieur. [-X

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:42 pm
by MadBill
Kevin Johnson wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:06 pm Aber die sind doch Motoren!
So? Cross bows and high-powered air rifles are often classed as firearms.. #-o

Time to fire up my Johnson outboard engine and go fishing.

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:53 pm
by MadBill
Now that you mention it, we don't have "motoreers", do we? :-k

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:58 pm
by Kevin Johnson
Ford Trimotor.

Touché !

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:38 pm
by makin chips
GLHS60 wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:22 pm When electricitians start calling motors Engines, maybe then I'll relent!!

Obviously electrical guys have it together.

Engine guys, many not so much.

Some yes, those I greatly respect.

Until then, I will continue to spread the gospel.

I love Engines, can you tell !!

Thanks
Randy

Its not called Ford Engine Company. Nor General Engines. Nor Enginesports.

If you honestly still believe motors are electric only, you need to quit being so purposely ignorant.

Any dictionary you look in states a motor is a device, either electric OR INTERNAL COMBUSTION. Merriam Webster, Oxford, it doesn't matter.

Look it up.


Here. Here's your first example. You'll only find more to confirm this fact.
Google wrote:Motor: a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.
Merriman Webster wrote:Motor
2 : any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion: such as
a : a small compact engine
b : INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE
especially : a gasoline engine
c : a rotating machine that transforms electrical energy into mechanical energy
Dictionary.com wrote:Motor
noun
a comparatively small and powerful engine, especially an internal-combustion engine in an automobile, motorboat, or the like.
Oxford Dictionary wrote:motor
NOUN
1A machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for another device with moving parts
Cambridge Dictionary wrote:motor noun [ C ] (ENGINE)
an engine that makes a machine work or a vehicle move:

an electric/diesel motor.

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:46 pm
by Kevin Johnson

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:48 am
by Kevin Johnson
I am just teasing.

I did think linguistics was important enough to study it formally at university and to study four foreign languages. In Europe, learning multiple languages is very unremarkable. Samantha had three spoken within her family as a young child.

Now, seriously, if you want to find modern examples of "electric engine" in an English literary corpus you have only to do a patent search. In the past (within my lifetime) this was a very onerous task -- I know because I traveled to repositories and looked through microfilm. Now it simply involves boolean search ENGINES (gasp!).

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22elec ... 2&dpr=1.25

Isn't it a bit insulting to the intelligence of a trained engineer or technician that they would not be able to figure out the way in which a motor or engine works simply by claiming the dissonance of its name?

Re: Why does a limited slip cause the rear to go sideways?

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:16 am
by Kevin Johnson
GLHS60 wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:24 am While I will admit I didn't study linguistics at Trade School I did study dissonance part time.

Below is a post I made "pre stroke" on the Engine-motor topic:

"I saw it make a difference when I was a kid pumping gas part time at a local ESSO.

The owner, an older gent who spoke in a somewhat mumbled way, one morning told Wilf the mechanic they were changing the motor in an old Chevy sitting in the bay.

While Fred, the owner, went to town to pick up a heater motor Wilf got busy removing the old 6 cyl Engine.

Wilf, smoking a cigarette, proudly had the Engine on the floor by the time Fred returned.

I thought you were going to the wreckers to pick up a motor!!

No, I went to Capital Auto Parts to get a heater motor!!
They both apparently forgot that old Chevy's ALSO had windshield wiper motors. They were vacuum powered and then became electric.

You see how it is easy to inject or superimpose another level of mistake or to simply focus on one level of the error made and ignore another possible interpretation.

On an old VW that I had, the "pump" for the windshield washer fluid was the over-inflated spare tire. That mistaken quest could eat up some time in a repair shop as well.