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FrankenFerrari engine

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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:08 am

ijames wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:28 pm
I strongly suggest that you go ahead and build Lana her garden shed now, and put your blast cabinet in it. ...
Last night Lana asked which bay in the new shop is hers.....ummmmm... excuse me? Did you just ask for a bay in the SHOP I built after you kicked me out of the old shop that was the only reason I agreed to buy the house you wanted to begin with? Did that just happen?

It seemed to end peacefully after I reminded her that anything she puts in the shop will be covered with dust and smoke and probably infested with mice......the next step was going to be explaining that I would assume anything I found in the shop was there because she needed help getting it to the trash, but luckily we didn't get there :)
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by n2xlr8n » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:36 am

YAY! :D
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:53 am

Yay is right.....the basement got myself kicked out of is 1600sqft, the new space is 900 ...really 850 because of the bathroom, plus a way less useful 150 upstairs and another 200ish storage only.....I really can't give up a full bay to lawn and yard crap.

with the layout set I'm nearly done wiring...all the equipment power is in and most of the general outlets....3-4 more hours I guess. About the same to rough in the powderroom plumbing now that the layout in there is finalized.

Not sure what I'm going to do with the airlines. The compressor is upstairs so I need to run air downstairs....but I'm not sure how much time and effort I want to invest in future convenience.....1 or 2 per wall I guess I put outlets beteewn the bays for dropdowns...maybe the same for air.....winter is coming fast and I want to move on to insulation, drywall and moved in but I don't want to be stupid either....
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by ijames » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:26 am

Put drops by your mill and lathe to blow off chips with, and a drop by the garage doors so you can take a hose outside to the driveway for tires, to start with. Maybe a drop by the back door, so you can take a hose out and blow off the lawnmower or something from the blast cabinet or whatever. Just put your horizontal (well, angled for drainage :-)) runs on say 6" standoffs and not clipped directly against the wall or ceiling. That way it's easy to cut in another drop later when you have a need and more time. Make the drop tees point upwards as a water trap then go over and down against the wall (or with shorter 1-2" standoffs) for the drop. At the end of each horizontal run put an elbow pointing down with a drop with a ball valve to blow out any water, and if you can, put a drain drop where the air comes down from upstairs to the bottom level, too. I know that you know that OSHA says no PVC, so black iron if you are into threading, copper pipe if you prefer brazing (my favorite), or one of the fast kits with aluminum or plastic tubing made for compressed air from eastwood or others if you don't mind spending some money to save assembly time (haven't used any of these).
Carl Ijames, chemist not engine builder
carl ddott ijames aatt verizon ddott net

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:42 pm

For air I was thinking 1/2" copper in the walls but had not really thought about pitching it....that is a great suggestion. I'm thinking loop around the attic, then T and drop down the wall.

Another thought I'm having it that PVC air hose (not pipe) is REALLY cheap and I could just run that stuff for about 1/4 the time and money as hard piping...no way to pitch it really...unless I drop it thought conduit or similar (also dirt cheap) on the horizonalish runs. This is a very tempting option.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by ijames » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:29 pm

If you put it in the walls you have to do all the drops now or cut into the wall later and then patch the wall. What's wrong with having the pipe exposed? Any of the soft tubing choices will have undulations in the "straight" sections but you should be able to just use a steeper pitch to get a decent amount of self-draining without resorting to putting the tubing inside conduit. When you open a drain valve the blast should take care of any small puddles in the tubing :-). Whatever you use, definitely use an upward pointing tee for each drop. We had to run new airlines in the shops at my last job and at first they just used downward pointing tees for each drop. Pretty soon they had water dripping out of the air ratchets and other tools when someone forgot to drain the compressor tank #-o . Rotated the drop tees to point upward and put in an elbow to a short horizontal run to another elbow down to the existing vertical drop pipe and no more water. I know you must have lots of reference texts and/or programs but one I've found really useful for small stuff is Engineering Power Tools from www.pwr-tools.com. There's a freeware version that is pretty handy with no ads or other annoyances, and the full version is only $50 and well worth it, IMHO. Does lots of different calculations including moment of inertia, beam deflection for lots of geometries, plate deflection (handy for plenum wall and intercooler tank thicknesses when you are running boost), and tables of data and other calculations. Anyway, it has a table of pressure drop vs. air flow in pipes for 100' runs that shows 4.8 psi for 3/8" pipe and 1.4 psi for 1/2" pipe at 20 cfm, so I'd definitely not go smaller than 3/8" pipe or tubing, and 1/2" would be plenty. You won't run 20 cfm continuously but you don't want to limit the initial blast from a full tank of air with a blow gun or to seat a tire on a rim.
Carl Ijames, chemist not engine builder
carl ddott ijames aatt verizon ddott net

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:05 pm

Little mention in Road and Track online:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cultur ... -v12-swap/

And GRM...I think there is supposed to be a few pics in the next print version of GRM too
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/frankenferrari/
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:10 am

The shop is pretty much done so "OFF WITH ITS HEAD!"

.......it ain't going to run looking like that. The only real surprise is I expected to hide it all began with a dropped exhaust seat but all the seats are as in place as could be hoped for....it looks like it started with a broken a valve maybe.

I think I'm going to add a dyno to the shop and make sure everything its running right before it goes back in the car. I also picked up a set of rollers cheap so the big plan is water brake for the run stand then move it to the rollers once the engine is in. Sadly the garage has already consumed most all "free" money so funding will probably be controlling the timelines for repairs and testing
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:56 am

At least the shop looks nice....so I'll have a nice place to be sad :?
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:37 pm

so...the pizza oven makes pizza
37f54311-202a-4135-b3a7-ed675a783967.jpg
20190424_195021.jpg

all the doors match
20190616_181726.jpg
I've designed some new wheels that look kind of OEM but are 8.5x18 and 10x18 instead of stock 7x16 and 8x16 and clear the updated/upgraded F430 brakes. I found a place in China that can make them, they sent me the drawings of the forged blanks they had and these are designed to fit those blanks....I hope to ge them ordered in the next few days.
8.5x18 hc27 20190626.JPG
I'm planning to add a water brake to the shops's inventory. I bought a set of 8.5" rollers for $100 and I'm thinking I can do a water brake that mounts to the bellhousing when the engine is out and to the rollers when its in since the rollers would spin about crank speed. The ECU I have already ready all the engine stuff and is easily programmed so I should be able to add the load cell input and an output for a control valve and have a decent setup for my needs...well see.... JUST need to make myself a water brake now :)
20190309_174944-resized-1024.jpg
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:34 pm

At some point in going to find time to fix this engine and see what it makes. Just found an old go-power ds-512 that looks unused, or barely used that I was able to buy for $900.

It's only rated at 800hp but I'm pretty sure that related to water flow limits and with some work to improve water flow it should be able to handle 1000 to maybe 1200....pretty sure.

The plan is to use the ecu to control the load valve
, read the torque and calculate hp so all that info is logged with all my other e gone data. That's the plan anyway.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:04 am

I think this will be the water tank
water tank.jpg

I THINK this will work for the water pump. I need about 90-100gpm, so 6000gph at about 45-60psi. They don't give a pump curve but i think this thing will be close....its got enough hp...end points seem about what I'd expect.....probably worth a try. I'm trying to avoid a big permanent installation in my small shop, this path is a little more pain in the but to use but pump and roll-up hose in storage in the 99.9% for time i'm in the shop not using the dyno seems to make sense.

water pump Capture.JPG

Right now I'm trying to figure out a new flow valve. The Dyno has a 1" valve and dyno connection fitting which is the same s the lower hp single rotor unit but then the 2 rotor has two 1" drains instead of 1 so the feed can't possibly keep up without flow restrictors in the outputs, which it has. I think is why the unit doesn't produce double the single rotor hp even though it uses 2 rotors identical to what;s in the 1 rotor unit.

So I need to find or make a 1.5" servo operated flow valve and remachine the dyno for a 1.5" fitting...or maybe add 2 more 3/4" or 1? fittings.....need to look at it a bit, but it needs more water flow to be happy with my engine. Go-power and dynomite have valves in thw $1000-$2000 price range....I'd really like to find or make something more in the $200 range that my budget will tolerate.

I also learned that the new go-power brakes are rated at 6krpm with greased bearings and 10k with an oil feed bearing upgrade. Mine has greased bearings and my manual say 7500 continuous or 10k intermittent. I talked to the tech and basically the bearings over heat so limited duty cycle above 6000 or so.....I think I can live with that and won't bother with trying to upgrade the bearing lube system.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by Leftcoaster » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:42 pm

Well - - who'd a thunk an innocent Ferrari hop up project would lead down the rabbit hole to a well equipped 3 bay workshop complete with operator's attic refuge and a heated swimming pool :D

Just don't encourage anyone to back up to that Honda water pump's suction hose as they might lose more than their swimming trunks :shock:

Wonderful stuff Mark, great to see engineering and ingeniosity recycle a discarded engine dyno also adopted to wheel dyno use, management courtesy of the Ferrari's replacement AME ECU :idea:

Now to plan for the 4wd conversion demanded by all that torque :mrgreen:

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:53 pm

Whether it's engineering or stupidity remains to be seen :)

Bought a couple things to play with.  The valve should have plenty of flow and the ECU should be able to drive this stepper directly....hopefully its fast enough and powerful enough to operate the valve properly.  Then an encoder for the back of the stepper so I can closed loop it or at least error out if its not moving. Hopefully I get it on my first try and have a working load valve for about $100.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:52 pm

I called and got the pump curve for the northern pump...looks about perfect. 60psi is about 140ft and 6000gpm is the point of interest and it looks like the pump delivers closer to 7000 so that should mean it can hold 60psi and handle flow for engine cooling too I think. Nice.
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