FrankenFerrari engine

[mk e]

Decided it wold be best to return the rings JE sent and get a set from total seal with a gapless 2nd. I'm going to need to hone the cylinders lightly to remove the scratches so I have to believe the bores will grow a thou or so and I know they will still be sealed well with the gapless ring in there. I also let a buddy talk me into trying their quick seat dry lube. I had another buddy that used to swear by installing rings dry and this stuff seems to be an improvement on that idea.

[gunt]

just a thought , why not get it up and running at this point the cheapest and simplest way then you would have the drive and energy to upgrade once your on a solid foot

[mk e]

Not a bad thought.....I hate to put stuff together that I know is out of spec though. Its bad enough when I I do it because I'm sloppy and didn't check it, but doing it on purpose so I know for sure it has to come back apart seems worse. Now seems like the time to check and recheck and get as much right as I can.....at this point I have until about May, so 6-8 months before its time to drive again....so spend the next 6-8 weeks to get it back together, 3-4 months in debug/tuning, then back in the car for spring.....or so goes the plan.

[mk e]

On my long drive home yesterday I was pondering that the total seal people say not to let an engine with new rings idle, highway driving for 2000-3000 miles is best or a night of racing is ok, I think I have that right.

That gets me pretty quickly to run it in on the dyno as I work on lower power tuning which gets me to the dyno needs to be working not parked in storage upstairs…..dyno working means pumps and noise and, and , and…….but wait. I have 4 mufflers, 2 loud, 2 quieter for normal driving that are rated to 250-300hp. The dyno needs about 1 gal/20hp, max load is 1gal/10hp but general use 1:20 is good and a hose has to flow 5gal/min, maybe 10….so 100-200hp worth….so I just need to get it on the engine (once there is an engine), hook a garden hose to the valve it came with and I can do a proper bench break-in without a whole lot more.

The other piece I got thinking about was flow rates and pressure. The dyno has a 1” feed hose…..100gpm is not going through that hose and valve, I said that before. The stuska 1200hp uses 2 1” hoses and their old literature talks about 35psi…..35 is a single spa pump like I’m told most people use on their dynos. The old gopower stuff talks about 20-30psi. The single rotor gets 500hp from that, almost what the single stuska gets…..hmmmm.….I’m pretty sure if I just unscrew the 1” quick connect fitting, grind out the threads and fit an o-ring seals manifold I can come up with a way to get 1.25” or maybe 1.5” or maybe a pair of 1 or 1.25 hoses for to keep it more flexible and a simple spa pump should be ok. The higher pressures have got to be about getting water though small feed hoses.

Then water supply. With break-in type loads a cheap 275 gal farm tank is which is about an hour of engine run before its too hot and about a 3 min full power pull which seems like a very long time….1 minute seems like a very long pull, about 500rpm/sec is normal I think so 2000-9500 is 15 sec and the farm tank is good for a dozen pulls, more really because there will be tuning time between pulls. 275 or so seems like a big enough tank. Build a platform for it so the return pump and spa pump sit under the tank and I lose just a 3x3 spot in the corner. This seems like a plan and if I need more than 10 pulls I can drain and refill the tank with cold water from the garden hose in about an hours so way bother with anything more? I was being stupid.

With the dyno up and working for at least low power stuff I’ll WAY better understand noise levels and what needs to be done. Another argument to just hook it up.

Last, gopower does not have an adapter for my clutch spline…I’ll need to make that ….wait….a thought is coming……I have 2 adapters that came with the dyno and I have a flywheel that takes a 7.25” clutch, ebay might have a clutch that fits my flywheel and one of my adapters if I look.

[gunt]

just from experience , i had an engine break my heart to find the issue , costing a fortune , so i threw anything at it till i nailed down the isssue , then ran it for a while it lived mad more than stock power so i built it back up form there ,

on the rings , thats a conversation you could loose a childhood in , once there not ideling , or left at and rpm for a peroid , i'd lightly load them up 30% and do several sweeps , but vary the load , and still not WOT . its also heat cycles , which help , but with sweps you get to view oil pressure / air fuel / and many more

[mk e]

Last, gopower does not have an adapter for my clutch spline…I’ll need to make that ….wait….a thought is coming……I have 2 adapters that came with the dyno and I have a flywheel that takes a 7.25” clutch, ebay might have a clutch that fits my flywheel and one of my adapters if I look.

Confirmed I have the 1 1/8" 10 spline GM adapter and found an adapter I think I can use with a plate bolted to the flywheel. I need get a GM bellhousing too....I have a Ferrari to GM adapter from a 400i auto car, which uses a 400THA trans

[mk e]

on the rings , thats a conversation you could loose a childhood in , once there not ideling , or left at and rpm for a peroid , i'd lightly load them up 30% and do several sweeps , but vary the load , and still not WOT . its also heat cycles , which help , but with sweps you get to view oil pressure / air fuel / and many more

Yes...thats the problem when literally EVERYTHING is new and untested. Just getting it to run at all is a challenge much less in the controlled way you'd want it running to do a proper break-in. Last time idle was all I could muster and not in as controlled any as you'd hope, but I think with the work done in the last round that its once its fixed it I'll be able to start it and maybe get some load on it to get get the rings seated...hopefully. It probably won't be the perfect break-in cycle, but I think/hope it will at least be something that resembles a break-in cycle.

[PackardV8]

Can't believe no one has come back with "ring break-in is so last century; current cylinder honing techniques and current ring production needs no break-in."

[mk e]

Can't believe no one has come back with "ring break-in is so last century; current cylinder honing techniques and current ring production needs no break-in."

Not here, on another forum I got a link to the secret of break-in.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

..9 dyno pulls, all that's needed with modern honing techniques...yeah, thanks but...no.

Fully broken in in less than an hour? and it will make MORE hp? Really? SIGN ME UP!"

I'm pretty sure people will believe just about anything on any subject as long as its what we want to hear.

Hopefully assembly #3 is the charm and all goes right this time around. Back when I was racing and doing stupid sh!t like this to my H-D engine I had buddy looking over my shoulder, double check and occasionally taking my wrenched away when I skipped steps....that was very helpful to me ending up with a good engine with less "learning moments" like I'm having now.

[n2xlr8n]

..9 dyno pulls, all that's needed with modern honing techniques...yeah, thanks but...no.

Fully broken in in less than an hour? and it will make MORE hp? Really? SIGN ME UP!"

I'm pretty sure people will believe just about anything on any subject as long as its what we want to hear.

What? From the guy that changes his BMW oil once/year? kidding, Mark.

I'm a long time quick seat user, on everything from daily driver S/BBC, Fords to Subarus using TS AP rings, Speed Pro moly, standard, etc. I love the stuff and have never had an issue with >15 engines.

I define broken in as rings seated, not anything beyond that.
I'm in the vary idle, let it warm up, change oil, retorque studs- crank it up, load it for 30 mins then let it eat camp. I'm no pro, but careful with assembly; I wouldn't change my break-in technique for anything.

[mk e]

I think I put plenty.

[gofaster]

Are you able to get the head normalized and re-heat treated after all that welding?

Or isn't it necessary?

[mk e]

Are you able to get the head normalized and re-heat treated after all that welding?

Or isn't it necessary?

No doubt that would be best...but there is so much head on these heads already and I didn't know what alloy they were.....ferrari only say proprietary so really didn't know what to weld with to be able to heat treat or what exact temps to use......so I didn't do it before and the same is all true now. I'm sure at some point I'll WISH I had figured out the heat treat.......

[mk e]

Slowly turning back into a head....slow going on a manual mill, lots of points to find and tranfer. The face cleaned up at 0.010 so that wasn't to bad. Another couple hours of this pointvby point nonsense and it will be ready to get the seat pockets cut I guess.

[gunt]

don't take this the wrong way , as when anyone is deep in something simple things can be missed ,

before even heading to the dyno with the plugs out spin her up monitor the pressure and may be at both ends of the block and head , with plugs out , i'd have no problem of wasting a starter on it