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Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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jacksoni
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by jacksoni »

In addition to grid/supply issues, there is the problem of where does the power come from in the first place. Until wind/solar/other improve, the vast majority is from burning stuff (nuclear would be nice but everyone hates it). And burning stuff is often worse than what an ICE puts out these days from an efficiency and greenhouse gases standpoint.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by Nikolas Ojala »

jacksoni wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:58 am In addition to grid/supply issues, there is the problem of where does the power come from in the first place.
There are several different Generation IV reactor designs that could revolutionize nuclear power production, also Dual Fluid Reactor. It is obvious that they could produce more environmentally friendly power for electric cars, but that would be only a small part of the truth, because the same energy could be used in synthetic fuel production.

Ammonia and hydrazine are already carbon-free fuels, although nowadays ammonia is produced from natural gas, so in practice nowadays the production of ammonia is not carbon-free. But those carbon-free fuels could be produced completely without coal, oil or natural gas.

Then there are some low-carbon fuels such as methanol and DME. Their production could be also completely carbon-neutral. The required carbon content should be collected from biomass, seawater, or air. Carbon could be collected also from waste products and by-products of industry, but then the question remains, would that be carbon-neutral then?

Also carbon-neutral synthetic gasoline could be produced but the required carbon content would be similar with conventional gasoline, which means that even more carbon-neutral carbon should be collected.

So, improved power production is beneficial for both electric vehicles and vehicles that consume carbon-free or carbon-neutral fuels.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by Clemson327 »

jacksoni wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:58 am In addition to grid/supply issues, there is the problem of where does the power come from in the first place. Until wind/solar/other improve, the vast majority is from burning stuff (nuclear would be nice but everyone hates it). And burning stuff is often worse than what an ICE puts out these days from an efficiency and greenhouse gases standpoint.
There are very few places where that’s true, and it takes a highly efficient ICE car to come close. See this page for a calculator that gives you an equivalent based on the power production mix where you live.

https://evtool.ucsusa.org/

For instance, where I live in SC, my Model S produces the same emissions as an ICE vehicle that hits 79 mpg.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by jacksoni »

That chart is country wide average, 2019. Clearly some areas are better than others and some individuals and their vehicles are better-or worse- than some average. More power to you. But I suggest that burning coal for the power you plug into is does not represent a good goal.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by gruntguru »

jacksoni wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:16 pmThat chart is country wide average, 2019. Clearly some areas are better than others and some individuals and their vehicles are better-or worse- than some average. More power to you. But I suggest that burning coal for the power you plug into is does not represent a good goal.
Using the existence of coal-fired electricity to beat on EV's is pretty lame. An EV charged with 100% coal fired electricity has about the same CO2 emissions as its gasoline equivalent, zero toxic emissions at the tailpipe and about 80% less contribution to the city heat-island effect. For most owners, CO2 emissions are not the primary motivation in purchasing an EV - their local electricity generation mix is not an issue. If it is, they can usually purchase "renewable" power for a small premium.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by PackardV8 »

jacksoni wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:16 pm That chart is country wide average, 2019. Clearly some areas are better than others and some individuals and their vehicles are better-or worse- than some average. More power to you. But I suggest that burning coal for the power you plug into is does not represent a good goal.
Yes, first to last processes, mining and burning fossil fuels is inherently damaging the environment as is using a tractor, fertilizer, trucks and refineries to produce ethanol.

However, during the change to renewables, we should use the technology to scrub emissions from coal fired generation plants has been available for going on fifty years, but is not being utilized. Politicians love to buy votes by keeping electrical power rates lower than they should be.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by jacksoni »

Was not trying to beat on EV's. Just pointing out that we have a long way to go to get our power adequately sourced from something other than "burning stuff".
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by nitro2 »

It boggles my mind how an EV section is even allowed to exist on ST, and doubly so regarding those that defend it's existence on here.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by Clemson327 »

jacksoni wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:16 pm That chart is country wide average, 2019. Clearly some areas are better than others and some individuals and their vehicles are better-or worse- than some average. More power to you. But I suggest that burning coal for the power you plug into is does not represent a good goal.
Oh I completely agree that we should get away from burning stuff for power generation. I was just pointing out that it’s still likely better than an ICE car from an emissions standpoint.

I daily drive an electric car charged by solar panels which I like to think balances out my project Camaro with a 383. :D
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by Monzsta »

nitro2 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:12 pm It boggles my mind how an EV section is even allowed to exist on ST, and doubly so regarding those that defend it's existence on here.
0-60 in under three seconds from the top of the line Teslas isn't worthy of ST? The canvas may change but hot rodding as an art is forever.

The new crop of EV trucks from GM and Rivian will also clear the 3 second bench with 700 - 1,000 horsepower and 6,000+ curb weights.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by nitro2 »

Monzsta wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:20 pm
nitro2 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:12 pm It boggles my mind how an EV section is even allowed to exist on ST, and doubly so regarding those that defend it's existence on here.
0-60 in under three seconds from the top of the line Teslas isn't worthy of ST? The canvas may change but hot rodding as an art is forever.

The new crop of EV trucks from GM and Rivian will also clear the 3 second bench with 700 - 1,000 horsepower and 6,000+ curb weights.
Worthy ? Not in the least, in fact less than zero. I don't care if they do 1000 mph in 1 second from a dead stop and change your underwear for you.

Many people on ST earn a living from IC engines one way or another, and they want to continue to. They won't be making a living from electric motors, electric has the potential to put many people out of business, and destroy motorsports etc. No way would I ever give electric any platform at all. Electric will go however the gov't wants it to go but I sure won't be helping it along any. Anyone that knows me would never start up an electric discussion with me as they would quickly find themselves on the wrong side of my "electric fence".

People who want to "change the channel", should do it right and get their own "channel" and have at it, instead of screwing with someone else's "channel", and that applies to a whole lot of things in life, not just electric vehicles.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by gruntguru »

The internet is full of EV "channels" but it doesn't need to be "US vs THEM". There are a lot of racers, tuners etc who are interested in where EV tech is going and want to discuss it with like minded folk. These people have "done it right" they "have their own channel". It is called "Electric & Hybrid Vehicle".

Bagging EV's, banning EV discussion from Speed Talk will not bring one cent into your business - not now and not in 30 years time when gasoline cars have disappeared from showrooms. Electric will go the way the DRIVING PUBLIC wants. They will vote with their wallet and are already starting to do so.

Gasoline powered vehicles and the tuning industry will be around for a long time. People still ride horses don't they?
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by nitro2 »

gruntguru wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:02 pm The internet is full of EV "channels" but it doesn't need to be "US vs THEM". There are a lot of racers, tuners etc who are interested in where EV tech is going and want to discuss it with like minded folk. These people have "done it right" they "have their own channel". It is called "Electric & Hybrid Vehicle".

Bagging EV's, banning EV discussion from Speed Talk will not bring one cent into your business - not now and not in 30 years time when gasoline cars have disappeared from showrooms. Electric will go the way the DRIVING PUBLIC wants. They will vote with their wallet and are already starting to do so.

Gasoline powered vehicles and the tuning industry will be around for a long time. People still ride horses don't they?
Do you see many horses on the roads these days ?

In time you'll be lucky to see ANY ICE cars on the road, they will be banned. Look out the front door and see how things are changing in the world today, how fast, and who is making the changes, AND without your agreement, vote, or input. ICE vehicles and the tuning industry will NOT be around long at all without a LOT of push back from people. As electric picks up the market (and it will by force if not by more normal means), environmentalists will then push to ban ALL ICE vehicles (unlike horses) from the roads. They already want to do that but can't for obvious reasons, but soon they will be in a position to do just that.

Ever see a great local racetrack get closed down and demolished by people who don't like racing and weren't there first ? Same idea.

As for the DRIVING PUBLIC they have no say, they will drive what is put in front of them, just as they have always done, no matter how good or bad, big or small, cheap or expensive it is. The DRIVING PUBLIC is not on ST. The DRIVING PUBLIC barely knows one end of a car from the other.
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Re: Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

Post by Monzsta »

nitro2 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:43 am
Monzsta wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:20 pm
nitro2 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:12 pm It boggles my mind how an EV section is even allowed to exist on ST, and doubly so regarding those that defend it's existence on here.
0-60 in under three seconds from the top of the line Teslas isn't worthy of ST? The canvas may change but hot rodding as an art is forever.

The new crop of EV trucks from GM and Rivian will also clear the 3 second bench with 700 - 1,000 horsepower and 6,000+ curb weights.
Worthy ? Not in the least, in fact less than zero. I don't care if they do 1000 mph in 1 second from a dead stop and change your underwear for you.

Many people on ST earn a living from IC engines one way or another, and they want to continue to. They won't be making a living from electric motors, electric has the potential to put many people out of business, and destroy motorsports etc. No way would I ever give electric any platform at all. Electric will go however the gov't wants it to go but I sure won't be helping it along any. Anyone that knows me would never start up an electric discussion with me as they would quickly find themselves on the wrong side of my "electric fence".

People who want to "change the channel", should do it right and get their own "channel" and have at it, instead of screwing with someone else's "channel", and that applies to a whole lot of things in life, not just electric vehicles.
And why couldn't you make a living from EV's? Look at the bigger picture. Right now you're steeped in the art of enhancing combustion. EV's are far from perfect out of the box. Take my humble Volt, for example. 149 hp and 271 ft/lbs. GM got the bright idea of using the same Voltec powertrain in the heavier Cadillac ELR, and found out the customers really expected more out of a $76,000 car. So they hit the books, got into some fringe motor flux theory using harmonics.

"The new algorithm builds upon a control theory developed in the 1990s that injects harmonics – through a complex series of math equations – into the original sine wave, boosting power.

“In the 90s, they used to call it third harmonic injection,” explained Grewe, “where you take the third harmonic of the primary frequency and inject it back in. That actually makes the motor have more capabilities. We went about ten levels beyond that, so it’s way past third harmonic injection.”

233 hp and 373 ft/lbs was the final result without a single hardware change. Same motors, same inverters, same battery. Just a different method of driving the motors. And that from an OEM that has to warranty it.

Gasoline engines aren't going anywhere. But don't close yourself off to the future. Apply yourself to it.
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