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Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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Sparksalot
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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by Sparksalot » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:33 am

There is no hope for salesmen such as delivered here. Note that he cleverly stated "mechanical efficiency" when that is not at all what is being discussed in previous posts.

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by Rex Schimmer » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:22 pm

Sparksalot,
Sounds like we are about the same vintage, I left school exactly 50 years ago and I probably took thermo around 1964-5.

Rex

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by dave brode » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:57 pm

[quote="Brian P"]wrote;


Problem with wind power is convincing the NIMBYs. Big problem in our area.

--

As it should be. I trust that you do not live within ear shot of a turbine. Or in the flicker path.


Please, No - would not exist w/o lobbyists waving checks and the resulting subsidies from my tax dollars wind turbines- In My Back Yard.

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by MadBill » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:42 pm

Brian P wrote:Random thoughts about "efficiency" on EVs ...

If you are hung up on using fossil fuel then it's possible that well-to-wheels might not be all that different from using a combustion engine in the car.

BUT.

Coal is on the way out. Ontario (Canada) no longer has any coal-fired generating plants. We are about 50% nuclear 25% hydroelectric ~5% renewables (mostly wind), and the rest is natural gas. .

Speaking of ''Renewables a great example of the need to look at the details is the conversion of a coal-fired plant in Northwestern Ontario to natural gas... no wait, maybe not....err, yes NG it is! -...ahh, on fourth thought maybe not, lets go for a win-win-win by using biomass; the area has a burgeoning forest industry!

So, see how long it takes you to find the buried info in this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_B ... ng_Station ,which casually mentions that a) it burns fuel pellets imported from NORWAY #-o at enormous cost, making it by far the most expensive $/KW plant in Canada and b) to minimize the bleed of red ink, it is mandated to buy no more than 15,000 tons of fuel per year, leaving the plant operating at TWO PERCENT of capacity. .
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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by 289nate » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:07 pm

Whichever has the most HP will have the potential to be the quickest. Even if you're just racing from a stop to 60 feet.

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:16 pm

289nate wrote:Whichever has the most HP will have the potential to be the quickest. Even if you're just racing from a stop to 60 feet.
Would that be hp or torque?
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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by 289nate » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:30 pm

Carnut1 wrote:
289nate wrote:Whichever has the most HP will have the potential to be the quickest. Even if you're just racing from a stop to 60 feet.
Would that be hp or torque?
I said HP. HP is calculated from torque. So torque and rpm if that helps you. As an example, I'll take 500 lb-ft at 6,000 rpm over 550 lb-ft at 2,000 rpm any day of the week and have the potential to KILL the other person accelerating to any specific mph. I'll also take my 400'ish HP 6.2L SUV engine over my 6.6L 360'ish HP Duramax diesel engine for potential acceleration to a certain mph even though the Duramax has a HUGE torque advantage.

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:24 pm

289nate wrote:
Carnut1 wrote:
289nate wrote:Whichever has the most HP will have the potential to be the quickest. Even if you're just racing from a stop to 60 feet.
Would that be hp or torque?
I said HP. HP is calculated from torque. So torque and rpm if that helps you. As an example, I'll take 500 lb-ft at 6,000 rpm over 550 lb-ft at 2,000 rpm any day of the week and have the potential to KILL the other person accelerating to any specific mph. I'll also take my 400'ish HP 6.2L SUV engine over my 6.6L 360'ish HP Duramax diesel engine for potential acceleration to a certain mph even though the Duramax has a HUGE torque advantage.
Ic engines and electric motors have completely different torque curves and are difficult to compare. Totally different animals. The question is could the low rpm torque still out accelerate the high rpm torque if geared right?
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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by MadBill » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:50 pm

Carnut1 wrote:...The question is could the low rpm torque still out accelerate the high rpm torque if geared right?
It could if both were single-geared.
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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by 289nate » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:40 pm

The electric motor should have a flat HP curve (no such thing as max hp from 0 rpm though). That would result in a direct drive with a gear ratio set for a specific mph. Any kind of multi speed transmission would be pointless if you refer to the torque curve. What becomes available to you when you have torque and rpm? The ability to do work. It will become obvious if you use the mystical powers of math combined with what a properly set up drag application will consist of. It was hard for me to wrap my head around at first until I started doing the math.

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by 289nate » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:58 pm

MadBill wrote:
Carnut1 wrote:...The question is could the low rpm torque still out accelerate the high rpm torque if geared right?
It could if both were single-geared.
Yes. But why would they be??? The flat HP "curve" electric motor should be single geared as a multi speed transmission would be of zero use when it comes to torque at the tire which could be looked at as what accelerates the vehicle.

The internal combustion engine could use a two speed or a six speed clutchless manual depending on the power curve. Should never see the handicapped part of it's rpm range when done right. So give me the HP advantage every time if acceleration to a specific mph is the goal.

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by BBO Omega » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:15 am

In a n AC Induction Motor application with a Toshiba G9 VFD, you achieve 250% Nameplate Torque from .2hz up .
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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by 289nate » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:34 am

BBO Omega wrote:In a n AC Induction Motor application with a Toshiba G9 VFD, you achieve 250% Nameplate Torque from .2hz up .
What does the HP calculate out to be?

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by pdq67 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:45 am

I want to say that a modern ultra supercritical steam fired power plant is something like 50 NET eff.

But please check me here.

I personally would use Nuke to heat one!

I have worked in a couple of BIG coal-fired power plants so know a bit about them.

1. TVA, Paradise plant. At one time it burned something like up to 20,000 tons of coal a day! And to put this in perspective, an aluminum coal car holds 120 tons!

2. Detroit Ed, Monroe, MI At one time this one was the largest one in the country.

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Re: Electric motor vs. Gas engine

Post by pdq67 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:59 am

Back again.

Does anybody SELL here in the good old USA a small corn-popper commuter 2-dr hatch stick tranny car?

It can also be a corn-popper diesel engine.

pdq67

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