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Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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j-c-c
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by j-c-c »

DaveMcLain wrote:
exhaustgases wrote:
DaveMcLain wrote:And the power to run these cars will come from??? Coal, natural gas or nuclear?
Actually in all motors the power truly comes from magnetism.

And why is everyones head in the needs some sort of added power to create it box? If you need that route then a hydrogen fuel cell will work.

Normal permanent magnets repel and attract with no need for a power source. So how many scientific it can't be done things have now been done?
Yes many things in physics, medicine, aeronautics, genetics etc. Years ago it was thought the sound barrier could not be broken with an aircraft.
What are you talking about? Power does NOT come from permanent magnets.... If that were the case a perpetual motion machine would be possible.
I'm raising my hand here.

E=mc2
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by sportsroof »

Huh? They were awesome cars. Esp the 850/s70/s60 platform
Try Youtube 'BTCC Volvo Touring Cars'. Here in the UK the Police used the big Estate cars (American: Station Wagon)
It was hilarious watching these big estates creaming past little 'sporty type' touring cars back in the day.
Invest a moment or two watching what they could do. Heh Heh.
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Post by 4sfed »

Yeah, that's going to work #-o
elec_grid.jpg
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Re: 4sfed

Post by roc »

4sfed wrote:
Yeah, that's going to work #-o

elec_grid.jpg
My thinking too :roll:
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by jake197000 »

they promised my flying cars by now when i was in 5th grade.i dont think ic engines are going away any time soon.electric is fine and all but they arent gonna rule for some time .like some one else said there are so many major sources of green house gases that seem to be not picked on nearly as much as automobiles.what the rest of the world does china and india counteract.
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by BenE64 »

www.adani.com/media/chairman-corner

The fact that this is the richest dude in india, his prime interests are in electricity power generation, may have some influence in the country's decisions.... if you're cynical like me. Id say money is the driving factor not any real environmental push. Land fill causes as much greenhouse gas if not more than cars.
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by pdq67 »

BenE64 wrote:http://www.adani.com/media/chairman-corner

The fact that this is the richest dude in india, his prime interests are in electricity power generation, may have some influence in the country's decisions.... if you're cynical like me. Id say money is the driving factor not any real environmental push. Land fill causes as much greenhouse gas if not more than cars.


But some places are sucking landfill gases out of the landfills and using it to power gas turbines to make electricity!

I think Columbia, MO might have two gensets out at our landfill now?

Oh, and thinking of landfill gases, what's happening with the underground fire at Bridgeton, MO that was headed towards an old underground nuke dump?? Did they ever get it contained?

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Truckedup »

pdq67 wrote:
BenE64 wrote:http://www.adani.com/media/chairman-corner

The fact that this is the richest dude in india, his prime interests are in electricity power generation, may have some influence in the country's decisions.... if you're cynical like me. Id say money is the driving factor not any real environmental push. Land fill causes as much greenhouse gas if not more than cars.


But some places are sucking landfill gases out of the landfills and using it to power gas turbines to make electricity!

I think Columbia, MO might have two gensets out at our landfill now?

Oh, and thinking of landfill gases, what's happening with the underground fire at Bridgeton, MO that was headed towards an old underground nuke dump?? Did they ever get it contained?

pdq67
As an electrician, I worked on a project to power generators run on methane in a Waste Management landfill about 20 years ago. The engines powering the generators are /were four Caterpillar V12 Diesels converted to spark ignition. Methane leaves deposits in the engines ,so about every 6 months the heads had to come off for cleaning...That may be solved by now..
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Keith Morganstein »

Truckedup wrote:
As an electrician, I worked on a project to power generators run on methane in a Waste Management landfill about 20 years ago. The engines powering the generators are /were four Caterpillar V12 Diesels converted to spark ignition. Methane leaves deposits in the engines ,so about every 6 months the heads had to come off for cleaning...That may be solved by now..
The installations are much bigger now. A good sized landfill might have four 3520 Cats or several big Wakeshau engines. Some have gas turbines. The quality of the landfill gas is still a big issues. Siloxine deposits are big problem. The gas can be cleaned, but that equipment is expensive.
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by roc »

Keith Morganstein wrote:
Truckedup wrote:
As an electrician, I worked on a project to power generators run on methane in a Waste Management landfill about 20 years ago. The engines powering the generators are /were four Caterpillar V12 Diesels converted to spark ignition. Methane leaves deposits in the engines ,so about every 6 months the heads had to come off for cleaning...That may be solved by now..
The installations are much bigger now. A good sized landfill might have four 3520 Cats or several big Wakeshau engines. Some have gas turbines. The quality of the landfill gas is still a big issues. Siloxine deposits are big problem. The gas can be cleaned, but that equipment is expensive.
The natural gas for residential and automotive use is cleaner than that. I had a couple of jobs in converting cars/pickup trucks to natural gas in the early 90's. When the natural gas plants failed to separate the heavier hydrocarbon content, there would be a few dozens of taxis waiting for service in front of the shop. That happened maybe once or twice a year. The heavier hydrocarbon content lowers the octane rating significantly, so cars were pinging really bad (some cracked/melted spark plugs).
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Ratu »

IIRC there is 1,909 kg of hydrocarbon of all types produced per person per year at the moment. Meanwhile there is some 16 kg of non-ferrous industrial metals produced per person per year. That is well worth thinking about.

The process of getting the non-ferrous industrial (n-fi) metals is far more complex (read resource intensive and expensive) than getting hydrocarbons. For a start getting the metal ores involves a great deal more than poking a bore hole in the ground and pumping (assuming you even have to pump, sometimes the hydrocarbons flow upwards under pressure and all you need do is collect them). While hydrocarbons are usually refined as a next step, the n-fi metals need complex extra steps to "win" them. These usually demand an electrical/chemical process where the n-fi metals are reduced. That is in addition to refining etc. And it takes a long time, often decades, to bring in new resource, let alone the infrastructure needed for process and transportation.

So, why would one want to replace a few hundred grams per year per person of hydrocarbon production with tens or hundreds of kilos of non-ferrous industrials? Where does the money, manufacturing plant, infrastructure, processing plant, expertise and so on to achieve that massive redirection of civilisation appear from exactly?

Hydrocarbons are extraordinarily cheap- cheaper even than food (compare milk to gasoline for instance). N-fi metals are hugely expensive in comparison.

Right now there is not practical, let alone economic, means to recycle lithium and indeed most of the n-fi metals (aside from aluminium, cobalt, copper and the like). World production of lithium per year is well under 50,000 tonnes. All of it is used and goes through on a once only basis. After being in a battery for a while some of it goes to landfill, some into the water and some gets disposed of in concrete. All of it presently has been directed to production 100%- there is no reserve capacity waiting around to meet new demand. It is already 100% all-in, one time use. Think what that means.

The population of the world is 4.7 billion. See whether you can work out how many kg of lithium per person per year is being produced. Think on that number when you compare it to the hydrocarbon one.

See if you can calculate how many electric cars can be built per year. See if you can figure where all the batteries are going to come from. Because... there aint enough lithium and there aint enough cobalt and there are tremendous problems bringing in much new resource. It is hard for me to get close to expressing just how formidably difficult the challenge.

So.... electric cars are only for the relatively rich. As far as India is concerned, forget about anyone who is not already wealthy by 1st-World standards. If this idea goes much further ahead hundreds of millions of people all over the world will be severely restricted in their ability to travel around the place. In whose interest is that?

For the foreseeable future, the electric car will remain an exclusive rich person's toy (albeit some are really quite fun, Rimac of Croatia comes to mind), at least until an alternative to non-ferrous industrial metals comes along. Hydrocarbons anyone?

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Rick Finsta »

Call me cynical, but if electric cars become prevalent or mandated, that's when the government will finally realize that electric cars are not powered by electricity directly, and the same regulations plaguing development costs for ICE cars will roll over to the utilities and even those who don't benefit from an electric car will be paying for them.

It doesn't matter where, or what government, unfortunately. It used to.
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by MadBill »

[quote="Ratu"]..
The population of the world is 4.7 billion. See whether you can work out how many kg of lithium per person per year is being produced. Think on that number when you compare it to the hydrocarbon one...[/quote

Excellent reality check Ratu! One correction though: the current human population of the planet is ~ 7.5 billion. We're going to need batteries that run on air and dirt. :(
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Belgian1979 »

DaveMcLain wrote:And the power to run these cars will come from??? Coal, natural gas or nuclear?
X2.

At best when calculating well to wheel they are only getting a higher efficiency with an ultra modern gaspowered plant. That is when not taking into account the energybit takes to produce the car and batteries.

I'm inclined to call it a hoax with the goal of providing the utilities with zn income in a xorld where people are increasingly less dependant on the grid.
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by paulzig »

Even at a market share of 25% for electric cars in 2030 thats way beyond the current lithium production, we are going to run out of lithium... Not that I am against electric cars per se.. They would have to increase production by 10x to make it close to viable.
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