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Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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GARY C
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by GARY C » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:25 pm

cgarb wrote:I've seen that one too...lol. One could only hope she was joking.
Here is part two after she realized what was up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB1yEcdomt0
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Dave Koehler » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:06 pm

I lived through the time that the much ballyhooed Wankel engine was going to put all auto shops out of business.
I am not concerned about the electric car.

Now, if they come up with the zero point module I am on board and will adapt.
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Belgian1979 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:50 am

modok wrote:IF the sale if NEW fossil fuel vehicles was restricted, the result for me, is i would probably have 3x demand for my services repairing older engines.
I love America, but if this is true, perhaps I should move to one of these more socialist areas? I don't think it will happen here.
Socialist countries ? Forget about that, they are the first ones to jump on E-cars.

I will stay away from them for as long as I can as I'm not convinced this is THE solution and certainly as long as the problems are not 100% ironed out.

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by GARY C » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:24 pm

The wording in the OP's article got me to thinking #-o it goes from electric car to electric "vehicle". I found that the total "Plug in vehicles" world wide in 2013 was just shy of 280,000, compared to GM sells of almost 4 million cars in the US alone... So then I dug into "Plug In Vehicle" because of a show Jon Stossel did about how he got a free golf cart with the new Electric Vehicle tax credit.

A plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) is any motor vehicle that can be recharged from an external source of electricity, such as wall sockets, and the electricity stored in the rechargeable battery packs drives or contributes to drive the wheels. PEV is a subset of electric vehicles that includes all-electric or battery electric vehicles (BEVs), plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs), and electric vehicle conversions of hybrid electric vehicles and conventional internal combustion engine vehicles.[2][3][4] In China, plug-in electric vehicles are called new energy vehicles (NEVs). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle

Plug-in Electric Drive Vehicle Credit (Section 1141): Vehicles must have four or more wheels, must have been bought after Dec. 31, 2009, must weigh less than 14,000 pounds (6,350 kilograms) fully loaded, must have a battery with a rating of at least four kilowatt hours and must be rechargeable from an external electricity source. The credit ranges from $2,500 to $7,500, depending on battery capacity. The bigger the battery, the bigger the break when you file your federal taxes [source: Internal Revenue Service].
Plug-In Electric Vehicle Credit (Section 1142): The law also allows a tax credit for two special categories of electrics -- certain low-speed electric vehicles, such as golf cart-style vehicles, and two- or three-wheeled vehicles, including electric motorcycles. The amount of this credit equals 10 percent of the cost of the vehicle, up to a maximum credit of $2,500 for a purchase made after Feb. 17, 2009, and before Jan. 1, 2012 [source: Internal Revenue Service]. To give you a couple of examples, machines such as the Star Electric Low Speed Vehicles (LSVs) and the "Zero" motorcycle series from ZevMoto would qualify for tax credits under this provision [sources: Star Electric Vehiclesand Zevmoto].
Conversion Kits (Section 1143):Finally, the law also allows a tax credit for conversion kits that let you plug in hybrid vehicles to recharge the electric battery. The credit is equal to 10 percent of the cost of converting a vehicle to a qualified plug-in electric hybrid vehicle that was placed in service after Feb. 17, 2009. The maximum amount of this credit is $4,000, and the credit goes away for conversions made after Dec. 31, 2011. A taxpayer may claim this credit even after claiming a regular hybrid vehicle credit for the same vehicle in an earlier year [source: Internal Revenue Service].
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-model ... redit1.htm
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by MadBill » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:53 pm

So would fork lifts, tow motors and the like qualify? One definition of 'vehicle' is: Noun. Any means in or by which someone travels or something is carried or conveyed; a means of conveyance or transport:noun
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Hairyscreech » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:33 pm

It could be way easier to be hit by an elective vehicle than any of us think, the other half was nearly hit by a tesla in the carpark near us.
I watche it happen from sat in the car (cabriolet) she was waking back to the car past a line of cars, guy sat in a Tesla doing something, setting the sat nav or something, just as she went to walk past it, bam pulls out of the space with no sound or warning.
He clearly had not looked properly, but with a brand new Tesla he was far too important to worry about others, she had nothing to say the car she was about to walk past was electric and could move instantly and soundlessly.

OK you might say the vehicle was occupied and she should have seen that, he was sat in it on his phone on her way to the parking meter and she couldn't identify if it is supposed to make an engine noise or not.

Going to be someone killed like this in the UK soon, seen close calls more that once.

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by levisnteeshirt » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:14 pm

Great ,, ever see a battery explode , I have ,, no thanks

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by GARY C » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:32 am

levisnteeshirt wrote:Great ,, ever see a battery explode , I have ,, no thanks
Lets hope this doesn't happen to the elec cars.
Japanese firm announced on Thursday that it would recall nearly 1.2 million Accord vehicles produced between 2013 and 2016, after receiving multiple reports of the cars' battery sensors causing fires in the engine.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/14/news/co ... index.html
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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Hairyscreech » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:03 pm

GARY C wrote:
levisnteeshirt wrote:Great ,, ever see a battery explode , I have ,, no thanks
Lets hope this doesn't happen to the elec cars.
Japanese firm announced on Thursday that it would recall nearly 1.2 million Accord vehicles produced between 2013 and 2016, after receiving multiple reports of the cars' battery sensors causing fires in the engine.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/14/news/co ... index.html
There does seem to be a bit of a trend with electric cars and fireballs after accidents, Richard Hammond was nearly in one recently and there was a guy not long back who's Testla the fire brigade could not put out, questions on that one if he was dead before the fire started or if he was just unconscious and they had to let him burn... :shock:

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Belgian1979 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:56 pm

Hairyscreech wrote:
GARY C wrote:
levisnteeshirt wrote:Great ,, ever see a battery explode , I have ,, no thanks
Lets hope this doesn't happen to the elec cars.
Japanese firm announced on Thursday that it would recall nearly 1.2 million Accord vehicles produced between 2013 and 2016, after receiving multiple reports of the cars' battery sensors causing fires in the engine.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/14/news/co ... index.html
There does seem to be a bit of a trend with electric cars and fireballs after accidents, Richard Hammond was nearly in one recently and there was a guy not long back who's Testla the fire brigade could not put out, questions on that one if he was dead before the fire started or if he was just unconscious and they had to let him burn... :shock:
It has to be said that fueled cars are not exactly hazardous free either. However, the fire brigades are not yet equiped or trained well to deal with a car with Li-ion batteries that catch fire. Water is like pouring oil on fire in that case.

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Hairyscreech » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:29 am

Belgian1979 wrote:
Hairyscreech wrote:
GARY C wrote: Lets hope this doesn't happen to the elec cars.
Japanese firm announced on Thursday that it would recall nearly 1.2 million Accord vehicles produced between 2013 and 2016, after receiving multiple reports of the cars' battery sensors causing fires in the engine.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/14/news/co ... index.html
There does seem to be a bit of a trend with electric cars and fireballs after accidents, Richard Hammond was nearly in one recently and there was a guy not long back who's Testla the fire brigade could not put out, questions on that one if he was dead before the fire started or if he was just unconscious and they had to let him burn... :shock:
It has to be said that fuelled cars are not exactly hazardous free either. However, the fire brigades are not yet equipped or trained well to deal with a car with Li-ion batteries that catch fire. Water is like pouring oil on fire in that case.
No arguments there, anything carrying a combustible liquid is going to be fire risk, ask anyone that knows old BMWs, the fuel hoses perish and leak onto the engine block! Never personally seen one go up from that issue though, seen one leaking to the point that there was actually liquid fuel visible on the side of the block, car stank of fuel.
Even when leaking quite badly normal gasoline is still reasonably hard to ignite and needs a decent source of ignition, the 100+ degrees of the engine block is not enough on it's own, only really vaporising the fuel.
We were curious about the movie trope of throwing a fag but into a pool of fuel to light it once so were actually trying it with a metal bucket and a couple of litres of fuel (yeah I know, dumb, just don't [-X ) but we could not get it to go up. Even pouring some out to get more vapour it was still not quite enough.

I will say my personal experience has been that oil and the electrics have been a greater fire risk than the fuel, seen a few cars burst into flames after putting a rod through the block or loosing a turbo oil feed, hardly surprising there though.

More worrying seems to be VW vans with sticking starter motor solenoids, heat just builds up while they are parked until the loom catches fire.

Totally agree about the the fire services being ill equipped to deal with a Li-ion or Li-po fire, in the big arrays used for an electric vehicle, there's a serious amount of power stored in them and unlike a fuel leak it can light itself. A shorted Li-Po cell is a real threat, seen a lot of R/C models go up from that and a lot of the R/C guys charge their batteries outside in a metal tin.
When a bank of cells gets crushed it's pretty hard to know what it is going to do, if you approach a crashed EV how do you asses the risk, is the body live? Are the cells about to cook off? Check out NASA's recent robosimian detonation for a good example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxJBRK2EXFc
Manufacturers do design in fail safes but they cannot be relied on, I am put in mind of the nuclear missile issue where it was proven the heat of a fire could melt the solder on the circuits and potentially detonate the warhead.

I can't see lithium based batteries really being a long term solution for electric vehicles, there are too many challenges around them. Production is expensive and messy, we can't recycle them, failure modes are not too clever, we can't put them out, they can't easily be changed, the list goes on.
The fluid/flow batteries seem like a much better solution, while they will have a lower energy density this is solved by the possibility of exchanging electrolyte quickly and easily for ready charged electrolyte and a damaged cell will leak out and become no more dangerous than a dry lead acid battery or if the flow of electrolyte is prevented then there is only the charge in the cell at that moment to be dealt with, also depending on the electrolytes used the fire risk is much lower.


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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by MikeD » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:21 pm


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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Hairyscreech » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:53 am

Clarification to those currently is that it only applies to pure ICE powered vehicles, any kind of hybrid is in still.

All it means is your v8 range rover needs regenerative braking, a battery and a electric motor assist. Not really a big deal.

Far bigger problem seems to be that they are making noise about road pricing to replace fuel duty and likely full scale real time vehicle tracking to facilitate that. ](*,)

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Re: Only electric cars sold in India by 2030

Post by Belgian1979 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:45 am

Hairyscreech wrote:Clarification to those currently is that it only applies to pure ICE powered vehicles, any kind of hybrid is in still.

All it means is your v8 range rover needs regenerative braking, a battery and a electric motor assist. Not really a big deal.

Far bigger problem seems to be that they are making noise about road pricing to replace fuel duty and likely full scale real time vehicle tracking to facilitate that. ](*,)
Yes, it's big on the agenda over here. Takes the fun out of driving. Can you imagine the consequences :
Well sir, we've seen that you have been at that location, have you made an invoice for that work.
Well sir, we've noticed that on that stretch of road you were driving one mile per hour too fast. That's then € 100 in fines.

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