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WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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pdq67
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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by pdq67 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:26 am

Newold1 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:43 am
pdq67

Would you please tell us what cars you currently own that you drive on a daily basis?

Thanks
As my old beater DD, I drove a '64 Ford Fairlane SW for years and years! I still miss it....

I last DD my hopped up 406 '67 350SS/RS Camaro 4-speed 3.31 12-bolt posi for one year commuting back in '86. Gas mileage was killing me with a round trip of 80 miles at 55 mph. I was getting 15 mpg! BUT the old car would RUN!!!! My word it would RUN!!

Next, I bought a new '87 Chevy Sprint ER 2-dr hatch 5-speed that got 50 mpg running 70 mph commuting for years and years. 227,000 miles worth!!

Next a new '98 Cavalier that was a POS!!

Next a new 2000 Geo Metro 2-dr hatch 5-speed that also got 50 mph but at 55 to 60 mph due to its weight.

Now, when I drive which is seldom since I have been retired for several years, my wife's bought new 2004 Buick LaSabre... SOB only has less than 18,000 miles on it so go figure!

Usually I get around town on my bicycle....

Oh, I put a new 496 in my '67 Camaro back in 2002 or so and then my Mom died and I lost interest in it. My big engine has never been started!

And to top it off, I have new engine parts gathered up in my bedroom to build a 325" SBC , -- 4.155" b x 3.00" s = 325"... And I am going to hopefully build it before I die??? I am going to shift this engine at 8,000 rpm just for the fun of it!!

(2) good mid '70's truck 400 blocks and a '66 283 block. And a pile of old double-hump and such heads that I don't know what I'm going to do with?

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by pdq67 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:07 pm

mk e wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:43 am
pdq67 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:37 pm
I will buy an electric car when it will run 400 miles and recharge in the time it takes to fill a vehicle fuel tank and me pissing and paying inside! Probably in 20 minutes or so..

All for say $17,000 ..

Ain't gonna happen so I ain't gonna buy one!

pdq67
Recharging as you drive is possible with the correct infrastructure. That would make non-stop coast to coast possible with much smaller/cheaper battery packs so much lower prices are also possible. But it requires infrastructure ......
Well hell Mark!

Cortez will strip us of our MONEY to build said infrastructure, now won't she!!

pdq67

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by pdq67 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:10 pm

AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't go through the link with a fine tooth comb or even this thread so I have to ask??

How are they getting a 400* mile range?

What is the power source that allows this?

Oh, and btw, I am WAY old-school so please cut me some slack.

pdq67

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by Newold1 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:55 pm

Go to Telarati.com
Search: Rivian battery
Read the technical article on the battery packs
The 400+ mile range unit is a 180 KW unit
These battery packs are really involved technical systems packaged in ballistic carbon fiber skid plated systems that sit in a frame and 4 wheel motor & suspension system called a "skateboard".
These skateboard battery packs are groupings of 2160 small cylindrical batteries grouped and stacked to actually form the large battery assembly.
They are self contained with their own power management, charging, cooling and heating systems.
The rest of the truck or SUV is mounted on top of this skateboard much like a regular truck or SUV body is mounted on a conventional chassis.
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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by pdq67 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:49 am

Thanks New for the link.

As for myself, I will probably buy, (if I do indeed buy?), something like a KIA Soul el-cheapo for less than $20,000.

My Buddy Doc has one and I like it.

His gets like 33/34 mpg on the road and can pack 4 big people and some junk in the way back.

IMHO, it beats a $50 to $60,000 plus electric... And I will admit that I am cheap, but I just can't see how an expensive electric can pay for itself?

Oh, one of our kids have a Prius and the other has had one so I know a little about them.

pdq67

PS., back in the early summer of '88, I paid $6,300 plus fees, taxes and plates for my bought new '87 Chevy Sprint ER!!

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by Newold1 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:24 am

THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGIN!

Amazon just commits 700 million dollars to Rivian and GM is busy doing the same. Rivian is alive and well and the EV industry is poised to explode!

All the major auto, truck and motorcycle manufacturers have announced and are implementing hundreds of billions of dollars of investment and spending to bring the EV market into a huge market share in just 5-10 years!

Just sorry we and others as an industry did not do more to improve the efficiencies both technologically and application to the ICE engine and bring those efforts to market. The door was left to far open and in walked a contender! :roll:
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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by PackardV8 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:23 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:24 am
Just sorry we and others as an industry did not do more to improve the efficiencies both technologically and application to the ICE engine and bring those efforts to market.
I agree with much of what you said up til this paragraph. That's just flat wrong! The improvement in ICE power and economy over the past decades, but especially in the past few years, accomplished while reducing emissions to a non-issue, has been a moon-shot accomplishment.

I've been in and around this business for more than fifty years and the mid-1970s was the low point; nothing being done to the ICE was working. Power, mileage, durability, drivability, handling; all unacceptable. If you'd said in 1975 that in 2019 we'd have 700-horsepower with unbelievably low emissions, great drivability, great fuel economy, road-course handling, all with a longer warranty, none I knew would have believed it possible. But it did happen and here we are in the golden era of the ICE.

But yes, our daily driver is a Chevrolet Bolt and it's the future.

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by Newold1 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:13 pm

When we consider today's best average consumer used ICE automotive engine with all the latest advances still operates at about 35 percent overall efficiency you can start to understand my thought that the door was left open to long by the industry and future of the ICE's fate was written in the stone.
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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by PackardV8 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:07 am

Newold1 wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:13 pm
When we consider today's best average consumer used ICE automotive engine with all the latest advances still operates at about 35 percent overall efficiency you can start to understand my thought that the door was left open to long by the industry and future of the ICE's fate was written in the stone.
Meanwhile, 68% of the juice to charge your Rivian will be electricity generated by a coal burning powerplant or natural gas, which are only 30% efficient.

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by gruntguru » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:31 pm

Coal fired efficiency: typically 40%, natural gas: 40%-60%. Then you have transmission losses etc. However an EV running on 100% coal fired electricity has about the same CO2 emissions as a gasoline car.

The coal fired power station has much lower toxic (HC, CO, NOx) emissions and zero emissions in the city where the EV is driven (and the people live).

As EV's take over, new electricity generation capacity will have to be built. Not much of it will be coal fired.

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by Brian P » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:41 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:13 pm
When we consider today's best average consumer used ICE automotive engine with all the latest advances still operates at about 35 percent overall efficiency you can start to understand my thought that the door was left open to long by the industry and future of the ICE's fate was written in the stone.
An automotive engine might have a peak thermal efficiency in the 35% range (Prius engine with Atkinson cycle slightly exceeds this) but in most applications, automotive engines spend a lot of their time operating "off-design" - at combinations of speed and load which have considerably lower efficiency; when it's idling that efficiency is 0%. The average thermal efficiency, tank to wheels, for a normal non-hybrid vehicle, is quite a bit lower than this.

Vehicles with start-stop (which seemingly people want to disable!) at least address the idling losses. The full-hybrid vehicles (Prius etc) attempt to shut down the combustion engine whenever they can and attempt to operate it in a better efficiency range when it is running.

If you are going to consider combustion-engine vehicles with the latest advances then you should also compare to power generation with the latest advances. The best natural-gas combined-cycle generating stations have a gas-to-wire efficiency in the 60% range. Even allowing for some transmission losses, electric vehicles still have a better well-to-wheels efficiency. Coal (in North America) has no future.

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by MadBill » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Brian P wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:41 pm
... Coal (in North America) has no future.
But alas, no one told Trump... :(

FWIW, I read that the same year that Ontario closed its last coal-fired power plant (2014), China commissioned 37 new ones....
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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by Newold1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:00 pm

Yep, let's try and get China to sign on to AOC's lovely NEW GREEN DEAL! That will be a laugh. China is serious about electrifying its vehicles but it's not being done for GREEN reasons. They are about to become the world's largest vehicle use country in the world and they can have the electrical potential to charge them all but they can't survive with their current and future pollution levels with most of those vehicles being ICE nor can they import enough fuel to power them all. No green here for them it's called survival! Tesla is already selling Model 3's there as fast as they can take them off the boat!
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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by MikeB » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:29 am

As you guys can see, I don't often post on Speed Talk, and it's mostly when I have question for the real ICE pros. However, I have comments on a few points discussed in this thread.

400 mile range in a 5800 pound pickup? Have to wonder under what ideal circumstances that will happen. And at least 10% of that range would disappear with a few of those spectacular 0-60 runs at WOT.

Is current EV range good enough for 99% of the driving we do? Well, not for someone who works as a regional sales rep or tech support person, especially in the wide open southwest.

Charging stations: When you think about having one in your garage, that's the ideal situation. As someone mentioned above, it's no different than running a home A/C system. But what about at hotels along the interstate highways? The average hotel where I stayed when working as a field sales rep probably has 70 rooms. And I'd guess at least 75% of those travelers would want to charge their EVs overnight. So what kind of infrastructure expansion would be necessary to charge 52 EVs, not at one hotel, but at 8-12 hotels in that same area along the Interstate? (I'm thinking of Amarillo and Abilene, TX here.) I'm no electrical whiz, but if those EVs conservatively require 30 amps @ 230 volts (like my home air conditioner) that's 6.9 kW, or 358.8 kW continuous to charge 52 cars at just one of those hotels. And the same holds true for apartment and condo complexes. So just because all that power from defunct refineries will be available, you still need upgraded electrical power infrastructure to deliver it to those hotels, apartment buildings, etc. Or maybe a small wind turbine at each location? (I'm being serious here.)

Finally, most EV prices are ridiculous. Have you seen a $56K Tesla Model 3? Essentially the same size and amenities as a $25K Honda Civic. I'd bet the financial payback is closer to "end of battery life" than a few years of not having to buy gasoline.

All that said, I wouldn't mind having a Chevy Bolt for running around town. With an actual grille, it sure looks cooler than a Model 3, and actually has a a "dashboard" in the proper location! But, hey, I wouldn't be able to snick my nose in the air and say that I own a Tesla.

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Re: WOW! The New RIVIAN pickup just premiered at LA !

Post by PackardV8 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:12 pm

Hi, Mike, agree with much of what you posted.
MikeB wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:29 am
Is current EV range good enough for 99% of the driving we do? Well, not for someone who works as a regional sales rep or tech support person, especially in the wide open southwest.
There are always outliers, but the facts are still the facts; 99% of daily use trips in the US are within EV range.
MikeB wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:29 am
Finally, most EV prices are ridiculous. Have you seen a $56K Tesla Model 3? Essentially the same size and amenities as a $25K Honda Civic. I'd bet the financial payback is closer to "end of battery life" than a few years of not having to buy gasoline.
Agree again. With two paid-for ICEs in the garage, an EV would never pay for itself in fuel savings, but the Bolt is just a better ride and a better vehicle for my wife's many short trips in cold weather.
MikeB wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:29 am
All that said, I wouldn't mind having a Chevy Bolt for running around town. With an actual grille, it sure looks cooler than a Model 3, and actually has a a "dashboard" in the proper location! But, hey, I wouldn't be able to snick my nose in the air and say that I own a Tesla.
The TM3 is a better car in many ways, but the Bolt is a better buy in most every way.

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