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Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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pdq67
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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by pdq67 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:36 pm

Rick! wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:39 pm
Newold1 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:52 pm
MY bad. I took a piece of information from an article from a reputable magazine source that was overstating what was happening with respect to new diesels not being able to meet the European Tier 6 standards for NOX and particulate emissions and several countries and cities in Europe would not be certifying, registering and allow these diesels to operate in their areas. It was and is still not Europe wide.

The result apparently is now whatever countries and cities want to ban diesel automobile accordingly and do not have to certify them for sale or registration. Most automobile experts in Europe are making statements that the newest diesel engines cannot effectively meet these standards and they feel the "diesel is dead in Europe in General in cars and light duty vehicles.

As it now stands several countries and major cities have stated they will not allow the sale or use of these diesel automobiles in their countries and cities as of 2020 to start. I believe from what I can understand Germany has already issued this edict.

Sorry, I should have been more careful to verify the real scope of this issue and not mention it until the full scope and actual factual information was in the post. :oops:
Stage 5 is just being implemented on Homologated Ag vehicles now and there is already a Stage 6? WhoTF they gonna get to do their farming? The ignorance of the left is beyond comprehension.
If I recall right, the EPA TRIED to regulate Farm/Ag produced, "Particulate Emissions"/PM, and it didn't go anywhere..

You know, "field dust", emissions sorta crap!

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by Rick! » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:28 pm

pdq67 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:36 pm

If I recall right, the EPA TRIED to regulate Farm/Ag produced, "Particulate Emissions"/PM, and it didn't go anywhere..

You know, "field dust", emissions sorta crap!

pdq67
Every tractor, combine, swather, sprayer, whatever ya got is T4B to T4F in NAFTA - same as a Class 8 tractor and diesel pickups, etc. It's been that way for a while. That regulates particulates to a certain size and NOx to a very low level. Stage 5 in the EU is lower and I was reading up on Stage 6 and it's easy to see what the end goal is. The papers state that new technology will just come out of a unicorn's butt to meet the regs.

I stand by what I stated earlier - what's going to power big Ag equipment when they mandate zero emissions? A Quadtrac holds 450 gallons of diesel - that's over 18000 kWh. At .254kWh/kg, 71,000kg for that battery pack for a 620hp tractor that grosses out at 28,000kg when fully ballasted. I ain't seen a battery pack or big enough hydrogen tank to replace that yet.

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by gruntguru » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:05 pm

Rick! wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:28 pm
A Quadtrac holds 450 gallons of diesel - that's over 18000 kWh.
Close but no cigar.
That might be the total energy in the fuel but a good diesel engine will only convert 40% of that (7,500 kW.h) to useful work - less if you include idling and part load. An electric motor that size will have at least 90% conversion efficiency over a wide range and no idling or warmup required.

Your point is valid but there is no need to inflate the numbers.

BTW there is a revolution in farm machinery on the way. Small, autonomous machines operating 24/7 and of course electric.


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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by pdq67 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:22 pm

gruntguru wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:05 pm
Rick! wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:28 pm
A Quadtrac holds 450 gallons of diesel - that's over 18000 kWh.
Close but no cigar.
That might be the total energy in the fuel but a good diesel engine will only convert 40% of that (7,500 kW.h) to useful work - less if you include idling and part load. An electric motor that size will have at least 90% conversion efficiency over a wide range and no idling or warmup required.

Your point is valid but there is no need to inflate the numbers.

BTW there is a revolution in farm machinery on the way. Small, autonomous machines operating 24/7 and of course electric.
Small, autonomous machines by chance called, "Androids"??

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by gruntguru » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:35 pm


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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by gmrocket » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:20 am

gruntguru wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:35 pm
Agbots, Farmbots.

https://interestingengineering.com/9-ro ... e-industry
You think the left wing kooks will embrace that? ??

Not a chance, they will attack all that technology as harmful to the planet, no pesticides, no big scale farming, no no no

They want organic natural farming... so the food they consume makes them feel more moral 🤪🤪

One day the left will try shutting down fossil fuel powered generating stations,, only to find out when they go home, their Tesla is not charging...doh. Then they’ll say the government should fix that problem

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by peejay » Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:09 am

gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:20 am
gruntguru wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:35 pm
Agbots, Farmbots.

https://interestingengineering.com/9-ro ... e-industry
You think the left wing kooks will embrace that? ??

Not a chance, they will attack all that technology as harmful to the planet, no pesticides, no big scale farming, no no no

They want organic natural farming... so the food they consume makes them feel more moral 🤪🤪

One day the left will try shutting down fossil fuel powered generating stations,, only to find out when they go home, their Tesla is not charging...doh. Then they’ll say the government should fix that problem
So tell me, how big is that strawman in your world?

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by gmrocket » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:20 pm

peejay wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:09 am
gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:20 am
gruntguru wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:35 pm
Agbots, Farmbots.

https://interestingengineering.com/9-ro ... e-industry
You think the left wing kooks will embrace that? ??

Not a chance, they will attack all that technology as harmful to the planet, no pesticides, no big scale farming, no no no

They want organic natural farming... so the food they consume makes them feel more moral 🤪🤪

One day the left will try shutting down fossil fuel powered generating stations,, only to find out when they go home, their Tesla is not charging...doh. Then they’ll say the government should fix that problem
So tell me, how big is that strawman in your world?
oh, about as big and real as the green new deal and cow farts.

some day you should check out reality

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by peejay » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:03 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:20 pm
peejay wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:09 am
gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:20 am


You think the left wing kooks will embrace that? ??

Not a chance, they will attack all that technology as harmful to the planet, no pesticides, no big scale farming, no no no

They want organic natural farming... so the food they consume makes them feel more moral 🤪🤪

One day the left will try shutting down fossil fuel powered generating stations,, only to find out when they go home, their Tesla is not charging...doh. Then they’ll say the government should fix that problem
So tell me, how big is that strawman in your world?
oh, about as big and real as the green new deal and cow farts.

some day you should check out reality
Nobody's suggesting organic farming will feed the world. That is flat out impossible. Rich elitists go for it because they are rich and elitist, you'll find that rich elitsts are not left wing!

Same for Teslas... you're not going to find many left wing people who can afford $120k toys. I see a lot of Teslas nowadays and guess what? I work in an ultaconservative part of town now. That's who is buying them, the people who can afford it because they got rich from stealing from the common people.

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by gmrocket » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:41 pm

peejay wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:03 pm
gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:20 pm
peejay wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:09 am


So tell me, how big is that strawman in your world?
oh, about as big and real as the green new deal and cow farts.

some day you should check out reality
Nobody's suggesting organic farming will feed the world. That is flat out impossible. Rich elitists go for it because they are rich and elitist, you'll find that rich elitsts are not left wing!

Same for Teslas... you're not going to find many left wing people who can afford $120k toys. I see a lot of Teslas nowadays and guess what? I work in an ultaconservative part of town now. That's who is buying them, the people who can afford it because they got rich from stealing from the common people.
Your more screwed up than I realized.

Two of the dumbest statements ever said on speed talk

All rich elitist got rich by stealing from the common person

And , you’ll find rich elitists are not lefties

ALL msm and social media elites and owners ARE left leaning..they are pushing the green agenda

Who do you think is backing Greta ? It’s rich lefties

Bernie has done a great job of making himself look the a regular joe, yet he IS in the 1% rallying for the green new deal.

Look who is funding all the far left radical environmentalists,, rich lefties

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by gruntguru » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:58 pm

gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:41 pm
peejay wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:03 pm
gmrocket wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:20 pm


oh, about as big and real as the green new deal and cow farts.

some day you should check out reality
Nobody's suggesting organic farming will feed the world. That is flat out impossible. Rich elitists go for it because they are rich and elitist, you'll find that rich elitsts are not left wing!

Same for Teslas... you're not going to find many left wing people who can afford $120k toys. I see a lot of Teslas nowadays and guess what? I work in an ultaconservative part of town now. That's who is buying them, the people who can afford it because they got rich from stealing from the common people.
. . . . Who do you think is backing Greta ? It’s rich lefties . . .
Yep, Europe is full of them. Oh wait . . . .

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by Rick! » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:30 pm

gruntguru wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:05 pm
Rick! wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:28 pm
A Quadtrac holds 450 gallons of diesel - that's over 18000 kWh.
Close but no cigar.
That might be the total energy in the fuel but a good diesel engine will only convert 40% of that (7,500 kW.h) to useful work - less if you include idling and part load. An electric motor that size will have at least 90% conversion efficiency over a wide range and no idling or warmup required.

Your point is valid but there is no need to inflate the numbers.

BTW there is a revolution in farm machinery on the way. Small, autonomous machines operating 24/7 and of course electric.
Ok. Take 40% of that energy, add another 10% for margin and now the battery pack weighs 35,000kg, which is still more than a Quad full of diesel and fully ballasted. The next target people are looking at is an Earth full of 11 billion mouths to feed. Novel bots may help a little. Vertical farming in converted cargo containers will help a little but now each acre needs to put out 50% more crop then before. That'll take some doing and electric hi power tractors and combines will need not the next generation battery but the ones two generations out. The logic employed by banning one thing to "spur" new tech to solve the problem is flawed at many levels.

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Re: Wow , diesel cars and light diesel vehicles banned in Europe!

Post by pdq67 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:49 pm

And finally THEY will go for population control!

But THEY will never shoot THEMSELVES or THEIR families between the eyes to drop the population, THEY will go after everybody but THEMSELVES!!

Right..

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