Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:35 pm**

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:44 pm In the past 2 years I have been employed working on some projects developing new parts and systems for new model American V8 performance cars

The best performing configurations were supercharged and could get in the range of 800 RWHP on a chassis dyno and still pass smog.
The effort to accomplish that was extraordinary, several highly motivated, OEM experienced, calibrators spent months to make it run well.
Not "hotrod well", "OEM well".

All the time on the dyno, everyone was pushing to get more power, it just seemed like the obvious thing to do.

Finally it was drivable enough to test on the road.

1. Way too much power, even with as good of tires as could be fit in the body, they were useless past 1/2 throttle at any speed. Put a teenager in that car and it would be crashed in a week. Eben an experienced driver could only keep it together I he had the restraint to keep it below about 0.6 throttle. I was told by those that had tried; better tires will just break the drive-train with this power level.
2. The tone of the exhaust sound was not pleasant, at an idle and low speeds it was fine, maybe even a little racy for a street driven car.
But under power, that much power going through a full CA legal exhaust system sounds choked like a pulsing air hose.
3. Frankly, all things considered, I think the car was made worse than it was stock. Once the novelty wore off and you want to get from point A to B in LA traffic, I would rather drive just about anything else.

Then it occurred to me, a Tesla (that a grandmother could pleasantly drive to play bingo) would beat it in a drag race.

I changed jobs, I don't see any point to the work I was doing anymore.

Love this post. Sure, we will all continue to get off on vibration, fumes and exhaust rumbles - but will our grandchildren?
There are 3 main factors at work here.
1. Electric motors can make max torque at zero rpm and maintain fairly constant torque across a very wide band . Exactly what you need for launch and acceleration. A combustion engine needs a lot of transmission smarts to replicate that power delivery.
2. A system to apply the maximum torque to the tyre without wheelspin (traction control, launch control) is much easier to implement in an electric drive system.
3. Driving all four wheels gives a massive launch advantage. Implementing AWD with a big combustion engine is difficult and requires a bulky, heavy transmission system. An EV can simply be built with two or four smaller motors. As an added benefit the torque can be controlled to each tyre individually.

Posted: **Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:14 pm**

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:44 pm 2. The tone of the exhaust sound was not pleasant, at an idle and low speeds it was fine, maybe even a little racy for a street driven car.
But under power, that much power going through a full CA legal exhaust system sounds choked like a pulsing air hose.

Jon,

Can you talk about the work done on the exhaust? (Mufflers, resonators, etc.) Any lessons learned? I'm following the exhaust discussions on the other sub forums currently.

Posted: **Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:36 pm**

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:44 pm
2. The tone of the exhaust sound was not pleasant, at an idle and low speeds it was fine, maybe even a little racy for a street driven car.
But under power, that much power going through a full CA legal exhaust system sounds choked like a pulsing air hose.

How about making softer i.e. less aggressive exhaust cam lobe?

Remember Ilmor 265E and how the valvetrain was made more controlled and able to produce more power while the sound became more friendly to ears. Re-designing cam lobes was the key.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:48 pm**

JCR wrote: ↑Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:14 pm
SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:44 pm 2. The tone of the exhaust sound was not pleasant, at an idle and low speeds it was fine, maybe even a little racy for a street driven car.
But under power, that much power going through a full CA legal exhaust system sounds choked like a pulsing air hose.
Jon,

Can you talk about the work done on the exhaust? (Mufflers, resonators, etc.) Any lessons learned? I'm following the exhaust discussions on the other sub forums currently.

I wan't involved in the exhaust on the car, I do know they scaled it up some but thought that it should have been larger.
It had to get through CARB testing, so they were probably limited to less than they would like to have done.

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:12 pm**

Jon,

Know you out of Orange, California.

You know Rivian has there battery build and technology center down in Irvine.

Maybe you should drop by leave a brochure or card and maybe they could use some of your pro-typing skills?

These companies are all on fast tracking and spending money now like drunken sailors! Maybe you can shag some!

Posted: **Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:36 am**

Thanks for the thought, I have gone back to working for an engineering software company for a living.
But I am looking for my next adventure for my shop.
I have been discussing the possibility of a specialty niche in electric motors with people that design them for a living but have not found anything worth pursuing.

Posted: **Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:53 pm**

My biggest gripe is the sound, or lack of sound. I’ll have to get used to it coming from the speakers instead of the tail pipe. But then I can pick what sound it is. Wankel at 10,000rpm one day, Ferrari the next.

Posted: **Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:11 pm**

Roundybout wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:53 pm My biggest gripe is the sound, or lack of sound. I’ll have to get used to it coming from the speakers instead of the tail pipe...

BMW and others have been doing that for years with their gasoline vehicles...

Posted: **Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:54 am**

I think the way I think about EV vehicles now is that they will save a lot of enthusiasts money driving them around as job and general transportation vehicles so they will have more money to spend on their ICE race engines and cars and all the glorious engine sounds those cars make on the road and tracks! Hooray, more dollars for the "Need for Speed"! with sounds of course!

Posted: **Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:35 am**

How long will the electricity to charge your EV be cheap? If they start losing tax revenue as liquid fuel sales drop they will have to recoup the money from your electricity or your paycheck to cover the deficit.

Posted: **Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:23 pm**

7mgtesup wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:35 am How long will the electricity to charge your EV be cheap? If they start losing tax revenue as liquid fuel sales drop they will have to recoup the money from your electricity or your paycheck to cover the deficit.

Not to mention the road use fees. Washington has the third highest gasoline tax, at 49.4 cents, so they've added $150 per year BEV tax. That equates to 300 gallons of gas, or 4,500 - 9,000 miles a year to break even.

We wanted a BEV for several years, but there were no cost savings for us. Finally, we said, "Screw the math!" and bought a Chevy Bolt. It's a revelation as to how much fun and how easy everyday driving can be. The one-pedal driving makes anything else obsolete.

Posted: **Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:09 am**

PackardV8 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:23 pm It's a revelation as to how much fun and how easy everyday driving can be. The one-pedal driving makes anything else obsolete.

That is something you can explain to people and until they drive a bolt they won’t understand. When my company tested the bolt we were impressed and upset as to how far behind we were. The regen braking programming in the bolt is spot on. Our engineers were left scratching their heads as to where to start.

I just laughed as their statements before the car arrived were derogatory.

Paul

Posted: **Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:30 am**

I read a great article this morning over coffee about the perception and acceptance of a good EV vehicle versus an ICE vehicle by the general public today and one of the observations and proof of the study was that as soon as someone gets behind the wheel of a nice EV, in this particular study a Tesla Model 3 their perceptions and opinions change after just a moderate driving experience. The point being that until the general public drivers have that opportunity they will be limited and somewhat strongly opinionated against EV's. The study and summary that I tend to agree with is that when Henry Ford introduced the model T the public was similarly aligned and after they drove one of those steel "horses" their opinions changed in a blur!

I feel that by 2030 about 50% of all vehicles and trucks on the road and in the garages will be EV's.

We IC performance and racing GEEKS will still have plenty of great engines to play with, wrench on and race with! Just be careful who you challenge at the stoplight.! They might just "Spark your Arse!"

Posted: **Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:02 pm**

There are always early adapters of any new technology; just want to try anything new.

There are always a great middle who wait and see; just so busy trying to stay even, they don't have the mental bandwidth to consider anything new.

There always is a significant minority afraid of any new technology. My great-grandmother wouldn't use a telephone, "That 'lectricity will jump in yer ear and fry yer brain."

Posted: **Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:26 pm**

Jack!

Now I know what happened to my brain! Hell, I've been us-in one of those darn new fangled tele-phones for years!

Heck up till now I thought it was one of those Russian or North Korean spies trying to poison me! Glad that's not the case!

Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

Supercharged V8 vs Tesla

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