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So electric may just be a passing fad again

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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gruntguru
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gruntguru »

I'm convinced. I used to be a fan of EV's but it looks like the problems are insurmountable. Door handles that stick in cold weather - wow!

Better sell your (insert name of major car company here) shares before they figure out that electric ain't gonna work.
gmrocket
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gmrocket »

gruntguru wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:03 pm I'm convinced. I used to be a fan of EV's but it looks like the problems are insurmountable. Door handles that stick in cold weather - wow!

Better sell your (insert name of major car company here) shares before they figure out that electric ain't gonna work.
So your just a fan? You don't own one?

I drive a hybrid,, I'm speaking from real world experience.

I've tried a few different alternative fueled vehicles. My first was in the early 90',s with a natural gas powered American made V8. Had the home slow refill station and all. It was dual fuel.

That think was more practical than the hybrid I have now. Only issue was the limited amount of fast refill stations in areas away from major urban areas
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gruntguru »

No -- don't own one. I will once the economics add up for me. They are improving so fast I would be crazy to play "early adopter". I know a few folk with EV's but I do live in a warm climate.

Excuse my sarcasm, but I just know all these issues will be solved. It gets cold in Germany, yet Mercedes Benz, BMW and VAG have all made statements about their electric future. Did you know BMW employs over 10,000 engineers - at just one of their many locations?
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gmrocket »

gruntguru wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:36 pm No -- don't own one. I will once the economics add up for me. They are improving so fast I would be crazy to play "early adopter". I know a few folk with EV's but I do live in a warm climate.

Excuse my sarcasm, but I just know all these issues will be solved. It gets cold in Germany, yet Mercedes Benz, BMW and VAG have all made statements about their electric future. Did you know BMW employs over 10,000 engineers - at just one of their many locations?
They've been fighting the range problem for about 170 years. How many engineers over all that time have been trying to figure it out?
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gruntguru »

Production EVs have been around for about 120 years. For most of that time no one was fighting the range problem. Petroleum was cheap and few people knew we were destroying the environment. (some still don't)

Image

Data from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ic_vehicle
gmrocket
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gmrocket »

gruntguru wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:14 pm Production EVs have been around for about 120 years. For most of that time no one was fighting the range problem. Petroleum was cheap and few people knew we were destroying the environment. (some still don't)

Image

Data from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... ic_vehicle
Your funny,, over and over again in that article it mentions they had low range and were best suited as city cars.

First electric vehicles were built around 1830. In Europe they were producing electric cars for between 1850 and 1900, long before America got on board.

They even experimented with quick change battery replacement stations because it took to long to charge...wow, exact same thing being talked about today

All of that is in your article

When you say we are destroying the environment,, how does an electric car get its power? Would that be from a power plant using fossil fuel?
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gruntguru »

Glad you took the time to read the Wikipedia page - pity you chose to cherry pick it rather than learn anything. You asked this question: . . . .
They've been fighting the range problem for about 170 years. How many engineers over all that time have been trying to figure it out?"
and I answered it. If you look at the graph a rational person might conclude that the "range problem" is close to being solved. For 99% of journeys the range problem is already solved.

The real problem is price. The lifetime cost of EV's is still not competitive with fossil fuelled vehicles but that is changing rapidly.
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gruntguru »

gmrocket wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:06 amWhen you say we are destroying the environment, how does an electric car get its power? Would that be from a power plant using fossil fuel?
You are obviously talking about CO2 emissions which are lower for EV's - even when running on 100% coal-fired electricity. Of course very few places sell that kind of electricity and the % of coal generation is only going to reduce.

I said "we were destroying the environment" note the past tense. Global warming was not "destroying the environment" back then and even now is only starting to do actual damage. We have been "destroying the environment" since the industrial revolution and noxious emissions from vehicles have contributed in a general way as well as directly by shortening millions of human lives.
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gmrocket »

gruntguru wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:12 am Glad you took the time to read the Wikipedia page - pity you chose to cherry pick it rather than learn anything. You asked this question: . . . .
They've been fighting the range problem for about 170 years. How many engineers over all that time have been trying to figure it out?"
and I answered it. If you look at the graph a rational person might conclude that the "range problem" is close to being solved. For 99% of journeys the range problem is already solved.

The real problem is price. The lifetime cost of EV's is still not competitive with fossil fuelled vehicles but that is changing rapidly.
The range problem is far from being solved..

You have no clue.. you proved that when you said you don't want to be an early adopter. Your like a lot of people who think this electric car thing is new.

I'm driving up north tomorrow,, gotta use the a/c therevand back,,,it's a 5 hour drive. Sometimes 6 or more hours of the traffic is bad.

You think a tesla would make it? Where are the fast charging stations?
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gmrocket »

gruntguru wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
gmrocket wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:06 amWhen you say we are destroying the environment, how does an electric car get its power? Would that be from a power plant using fossil fuel?
You are obviously talking about CO2 emissions which are lower for EV's - even when running on 100% coal-fired electricity. Of course very few places sell that kind of electricity and the % of coal generation is only going to reduce.

I said "we were destroying the environment" note the past tense. Global warming was not "destroying the environment" back then and even now is only starting to do actual damage. We have been "destroying the environment" since the industrial revolution and noxious emissions from vehicles have contributed in a general way as well as directly by shortening millions of human lives.
Oh jeeez, you a climate alarmist too?
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by GRTfast »

gmrocket wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:26 am
gruntguru wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am
gmrocket wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:06 amWhen you say we are destroying the environment, how does an electric car get its power? Would that be from a power plant using fossil fuel?
You are obviously talking about CO2 emissions which are lower for EV's - even when running on 100% coal-fired electricity. Of course very few places sell that kind of electricity and the % of coal generation is only going to reduce.

I said "we were destroying the environment" note the past tense. Global warming was not "destroying the environment" back then and even now is only starting to do actual damage. We have been "destroying the environment" since the industrial revolution and noxious emissions from vehicles have contributed in a general way as well as directly by shortening millions of human lives.
Oh jeeez, you a climate alarmist too?
Probably not the best idea to go down that road in this section of the forum. Do what you will though.
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Hitchens
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gmrocket »

GRTfast wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:27 am
gmrocket wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:26 am
gruntguru wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:21 am You are obviously talking about CO2 emissions which are lower for EV's - even when running on 100% coal-fired electricity. Of course very few places sell that kind of electricity and the % of coal generation is only going to reduce.

I said "we were destroying the environment" note the past tense. Global warming was not "destroying the environment" back then and even now is only starting to do actual damage. We have been "destroying the environment" since the industrial revolution and noxious emissions from vehicles have contributed in a general way as well as directly by shortening millions of human lives.
Oh jeeez, you a climate alarmist too?
Probably not the best idea to go down that road in this section of the forum. Do what you will though.
The funny thing about that is my carbon footprint is probably a fraction of what you fan boys of electric cars is...

That includes my house, my hybrid and my lifestyle. Mr "we're destroying the planet " likes to talk about what people are doing to the planet,, but no ev for him

Lots of love here for ev's but hardly anyone has one? Wonder why
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by GRTfast »

gmrocket wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:45 am
GRTfast wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:27 am
gmrocket wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:26 am

Oh jeeez, you a climate alarmist too?
Probably not the best idea to go down that road in this section of the forum. Do what you will though.
The funny thing about that is my carbon footprint is probably a fraction of what you fan boys of electric cars is...

That includes my house, my hybrid and my lifestyle. Mr "we're destroying the planet " likes to talk about what people are doing to the planet,, but no ev for him

Lots of love here for ev's but hardly anyone has one? Wonder why
Low carbon footprint? Oh jeeez, you a climate alarmist too? :lol:

I drive a full sized pickup (v6, direct injected, 23 mpg).. no real options for that in an EV yet. The wife is almost due for a new vehicle. We are seriously considering a Model 3.
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Hitchens
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by gmrocket »

GRTfast wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:52 am
gmrocket wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:45 am
GRTfast wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:27 am

Probably not the best idea to go down that road in this section of the forum. Do what you will though.
The funny thing about that is my carbon footprint is probably a fraction of what you fan boys of electric cars is...

That includes my house, my hybrid and my lifestyle. Mr "we're destroying the planet " likes to talk about what people are doing to the planet,, but no ev for him

Lots of love here for ev's but hardly anyone has one? Wonder why
Low carbon footprint? Oh jeeez, you a climate alarmist too? :lol:

I drive a full sized pickup (v6, direct injected, 23 mpg).. no real options for that in an EV yet. The wife is almost due for a new vehicle. We are seriously considering a Model 3.
Let us know when you get the model 3,,,or not.

It's a big commitment...you have to be able to tell lies about how wonderful it is and all that 😜

Keep us informed
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Re: So electric may just be a passing fad again

Post by GRTfast »

gmrocket wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:22 pm
GRTfast wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:52 am
gmrocket wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:45 am

The funny thing about that is my carbon footprint is probably a fraction of what you fan boys of electric cars is...

That includes my house, my hybrid and my lifestyle. Mr "we're destroying the planet " likes to talk about what people are doing to the planet,, but no ev for him

Lots of love here for ev's but hardly anyone has one? Wonder why
Low carbon footprint? Oh jeeez, you a climate alarmist too? :lol:

I drive a full sized pickup (v6, direct injected, 23 mpg).. no real options for that in an EV yet. The wife is almost due for a new vehicle. We are seriously considering a Model 3.
Let us know when you get the model 3,,,or not.

It's a big commitment...you have to be able to tell lies about how wonderful it is and all that 😜

Keep us informed
I drove a p75D a while back, it was awesome. The guy who owns it loves it, and doesn't have any complaints thus far.
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Hitchens
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