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Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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SchmidtMotorWorks
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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:14 am

Erland Cox wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:09 pm
Don´t kill the SI and CI engines so quickly.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... l-science/

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by gunt » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:58 am

there is already a 0 emission diesel developed , and 2 separate companies that are making fuel from the co2 in the atmosphere at the same cost of fuel today , so why the jump , lets see these 2 technologies come together , you could be charging co2 taxes to drive around as you use it up

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by exhaustgases » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:20 pm

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:14 am
Erland Cox wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 2:09 pm
Don´t kill the SI and CI engines so quickly.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... l-science/

Erland
That is amazing!
That would be good for the Co2 haters. If that was put into production soon they all would see that to have nice green trees we need all the Co2 we could get.

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by j-c-c » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:36 pm

First thing the trucking industry ought ant to do before total prime power electrification, install roof top solar on every dry freight style trailer, with batteries, incorporate trailer regenerative braking and short term power boost while moving, power grid tie end stations at terminals or when trailers are parked idle at warehouse docks.

The pay off would be substantial, the development costs far easier/less to finance then the hurdles for main power tractor electrification, easier system to work out the bugs and inherent other downsides, and allow for hybrid set-ups (diesel tractor/electric/solar trailer) as the diesel demise transition unfolds. Most of the tech already exists, just not the will/ or concept yet.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by Newold1 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:06 pm

That CO2 to fuel article in National Geographic also stated in minor mention that to make the fuel from captured CO2 it takes a lot of electricity, so if your releasing more CO2 to make the electricity then how does the fuel produced become carbon-neutral?! Doesn't the cost of making the electricity to power this conversion also add to the cost per ton of carbon dioxide removed so again the math $ are a distortion or friendly "spin" as I call it! :wink:
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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by peejay » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:46 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:06 pm
That CO2 to fuel article in National Geographic also stated in minor mention that to make the fuel from captured CO2 it takes a lot of electricity, so if your releasing more CO2 to make the electricity then how does the fuel produced become carbon-neutral?! Doesn't the cost of making the electricity to power this conversion also add to the cost per ton of carbon dioxide removed so again the math $ are a distortion or friendly "spin" as I call it! :wink:
You not only can't generate energy by turning a waste product back into the fuel that made it, you need to spend more energy to do it than you gained from the fuel in the first place.

On the other hand, if we had a large enough supply of renewable (read: not combustion derived) energy, and I don't mean solar or wind farms but nuclear on an enormous scale, hydroelectric made by damming the Straits of Gibraltar, etc... then it makes sense, because the energy is essentially "free".

But we don't have those things yet.

It doesn't necessarily make sense from a purely theoretical point of view: why not just use that electricity to do the work, and eliminate the middleman? But if your goal is to remove CO2, and you can have a useful end product, then sure. Once we're at that point.

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by Rick! » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:39 pm

Kenova wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:03 pm
What kind of battery power will it take to move a rig down the interstate for 8 to 12 hours?

Ken
It doesn't exist right now. Tesla's class 8 battery pack weighs as much as a class 8 diesel tractor. Recharging the pack will take a solar facility of about 6 acres to meet the optimistic 80% "fill" in 30 minutes. Freightliner is being more realistic with a range of 250miles and 90 minutes to 80% charge. There are other players in the market but battery tech does not invent itself even with 4 or 5 corporations and several government labs working on it. Viable higher energy density batteries that aren't Li-on are on the horizon no matter how much optimistic innovation is built into the project schedule. When it happens, it will be a good thing but realistically look at the penetration of EV's in the market right now - it's less than 2% even with the the support it's been given for the last decade. It's going to take a while for the market to fully adopt EVs as a viable vehicle.

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by peejay » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:17 pm

Rick! wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:39 pm
Freightliner is being more realistic with a range of 250miles and 90 minutes to 80% charge.
That actually isn't as bad as it sounds. On the eastern half of the country, you can access a lot of major cities in a 250 mile radius, and how long does it take to unload/load up? Plug it in to charge while the guys on the dock are doing their thing.

This is also the part of the country where traffic congestion is at its worst, and congestion is where EVs shine because they don't waste energy idling the way internal combustion engines do, and they can recoup electricity every time they brake.

Is it a good idea for running across the wide open Western states? Hell no. But it looks like an interesting idea for lower distance or intermodal use. I bet UPS would love to get their hands on some.

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by PackardV8 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:06 pm

BEVs also excel at stop-and-go. The driver not having to clutch and shift his way down I-95 would be a wonderful thing. Every watch a fully-grossed class 8 truck in heavy rush hour traffic? The stress on the frame and running gear every time it pulls from a stop? Electric motors replacing the rear axles would make the process smoother and less work for the driver and no stressed clutch, gearbox, driveshaft and differential.
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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by Rick! » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:08 pm

PackardV8 wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:06 pm
BEVs also excel at stop-and-go. The driver not having to clutch and shift his way down I-95 would be a wonderful thing. Every watch a fully-grossed class 8 truck in heavy rush hour traffic? The stress on the frame and running gear every time it pulls from a stop? Electric motors replacing the rear axles would make the process smoother and less work for the driver and no stressed clutch, gearbox, driveshaft and differential.
It's still a Class 8 rig at 80k lbs so something is going to feel some stress. My bet is the tires as there are no breakthroughs in rubber tires coming down the pike. There will be a ton of power electronics to control torque application to the ground. There will also be some gear reduction to also reduce torque a bit and (more motor rpm = lower torque output) and make things manageable. NVH will be a bigger deal than it is now as the ICE will be gone but the accessories still need to be run such as AC/HVAC, electronics cooling, air compressors and few few other bits. My spidey sense tells me the Class 8 OEMs would rather invest in electrics and hydrogen than go through Tier5 or Stage 6 diesel emission standards. After the next round of particulate size reductions, what's left? Another couple of trillion in emissions research with an even shorter window of ROI with the fervor over CO2 hitting new crescendos is a pretty big deterrent to developing diesel or natural gas or methane burners much further. Judging by a long thread on an SAE forum about alternate fuels, there isn't a lot love for diesels but there is a lot of momentum for zero emissions which is like Xeno's Dichotomy paradox...

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by Circlotron » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:57 am

Newold1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:17 pm
As for power for EV semi's to roll for 8-12 hours without 90 minute recharges will take battery technology they don't have yet, but it's coming fast from the battery technology industries and producers. "Necessity is the mother of invention" . They will get there with the batteries pretty quickly.
If the battery was part of the trailer you could on arrival just switch trailers and off you go again. The trailer that just arrived would be charging while it is unloaded and reloaded.

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by peejay » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:04 am

Circlotron wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:57 am
Newold1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:17 pm
As for power for EV semi's to roll for 8-12 hours without 90 minute recharges will take battery technology they don't have yet, but it's coming fast from the battery technology industries and producers. "Necessity is the mother of invention" . They will get there with the batteries pretty quickly.
If the battery was part of the trailer you could on arrival just switch trailers and off you go again. The trailer that just arrived would be charging while it is unloaded and reloaded.
Now that is an interesting concept.

I know at Summit, they have such cheap shipping because of a deal with the major carriers to leave trailers at their distribution centers. Summit's employees load the trailers, UPS/FedEx just drag it away after dropping off a fresh empty one. So the tractor is always moving but it's the trailer that sits idle for four hours or so.

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Re: Freightliner (Daimler) predicts end of diesels in big trucks,,!

Post by gruntguru » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:26 pm

peejay wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:04 am
Circlotron wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:57 am
Newold1 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:17 pm
As for power for EV semi's to roll for 8-12 hours without 90 minute recharges will take battery technology they don't have yet, but it's coming fast from the battery technology industries and producers. "Necessity is the mother of invention" . They will get there with the batteries pretty quickly.
If the battery was part of the trailer you could on arrival just switch trailers and off you go again. The trailer that just arrived would be charging while it is unloaded and reloaded.
Now that is an interesting concept.

I know at Summit, they have such cheap shipping because of a deal with the major carriers to leave trailers at their distribution centers. Summit's employees load the trailers, UPS/FedEx just drag it away after dropping off a fresh empty one. So the tractor is always moving but it's the trailer that sits idle for four hours or so.
Indeed. Build the tractor with batteries that will haul X distance. Couple to trailer with its own battery for even longer trips.

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