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Electric cars pollute more than

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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exhaustgases
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Electric cars pollute more than

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:16 am


Brian P
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Brian P » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:17 am

Contradicts numerous peer reviewed studies, and makes demonstrably false arguments. Look who paid for doing it.

Basically it presents the diesel vehicle in the best possible light and fails to account for the emissions associated with petroleum production and refining, while presenting the electric vehicle in the worst possible light (charging network supplied by 100% coal, which is not realistic for anywhere in the world) and accounting for every conceivable secondary source of CO2 emissions on the EV side of the comparison.

It should be quite obvious that a diesel VW Polo minicar is going to consume fewer resources over its lifetime than a Tesla Model S full-size near-luxury car being supplied by a grid using 100% coal for generation.

Kevin Johnson
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Kevin Johnson » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:23 pm

Brian P wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:17 am
Contradicts numerous peer reviewed studies, and makes demonstrably false arguments. Look who paid for doing it.

Basically it presents the diesel vehicle in the best possible light and fails to account for the emissions associated with petroleum production and refining, while presenting the electric vehicle in the worst possible light (charging network supplied by 100% coal, which is not realistic for anywhere in the world) and accounting for every conceivable secondary source of CO2 emissions on the EV side of the comparison.

It should be quite obvious that a diesel VW Polo minicar is going to consume fewer resources over its lifetime than a Tesla Model S full-size near-luxury car being supplied by a grid using 100% coal for generation.
This is why it is so critical to read the primary source rather than a secondary commentary. The authors specifically address this point in section 3.1 of their paper:
Buchal-Karl-Sinn.jpg
Section 3-1.jpg

Newold1
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Newold1 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:41 pm

As I noted in another post about energy and pollution differences ICE to EV comparisons. Read online at Clean Technica an article dated April 26th, 2019 by Michael Bernard. He lays out factual full figures for comparisons and those results may re-establish some facts and help eliminate some misconceptions and misstatements on comparing the two. I for one make a good living building and watching performance IC engines for race uses and hobbyists and I love doing it and know enthusiasts love i too. However do I think the ICE and diesel power plants will be the primary power source for transportation vehicles in 2030 - NOPE!. Will a lot of people , industry and enthusiasts still be blasting around in performance IC and diesel engines in 2030 YEP! GO FIGURE! =D>
The Older I Get, The Dumber I Get :wink:

exhaustgases
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by exhaustgases » Sat May 04, 2019 10:46 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:41 pm
As I noted in another post about energy and pollution differences ICE to EV comparisons. Read online at Clean Technica an article dated April 26th, 2019 by Michael Bernard. He lays out factual full figures for comparisons and those results may re-establish some facts and help eliminate some misconceptions and misstatements on comparing the two. I for one make a good living building and watching performance IC engines for race uses and hobbyists and I love doing it and know enthusiasts love i too. However do I think the ICE and diesel power plants will be the primary power source for transportation vehicles in 2030 - NOPE!. Will a lot of people , industry and enthusiasts still be blasting around in performance IC and diesel engines in 2030 YEP! GO FIGURE! =D>
Not if it is outlawed to do so, then no ICE will be running then. That is why people need to get their act together, go to the political section.

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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Newold1 » Sun May 05, 2019 9:43 pm

You need to quit reading or subscribing to the "sky is falling" mindset. When one sees the tiny infinitesimal contribution that comes from racing and performance ICE engines versus the mass contributions of regular transportation vehicles you will not see any king of a significant contribution to warrant or support the abolishment of those engines.
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Brian P
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Brian P » Mon May 06, 2019 8:42 am

^ Facts and logic. Unfortunately politicians and special interest groups don't always see it that way.

Case study 1. Me, this weekend. I'm on the way back from the racetrack with my roadrace motorcycle in the back of my van. I did about 75 laps @ 3 km each, putting 225 km on the bike, which used somewhere near 12 litres of fuel to do so (I haven't measured what's left in the tank and it's a new-to-me bike, so if I'm off a bit, so be it.) It's a 500 km round trip to and fro, and the van uses 11 L/100 km if I putter along near the posted speed limit ... so the transportation to and from the track uses about 5 times as much as the bike itself used.

And as a footnote to that, in my case, the daily-driving grind puts 3 times the annual mileage as bike-hauling does.

Case study 2. MotoGP, also this past weekend. In the course of a race, a MotoGP bike will use about 20 litres of fuel. Plus practice plus qualifying, perhaps 60 litres. (N.B. those bikes make 240 hp, mine makes 40, and my name is not Marc Marquez.) Roughly 20 bikes on the grid for each of MotoGP, Moto2, and Moto3 and the competition bikes use perhaps 3600 litres total. Transportation to and from the track for those bikes will dwarf that. There were 75,000 spectators in the stands at Jerez. Transportation to and from the track for all those spectators will dwarf what all the race bikes and all the race teams use.

I'd happily use an electric van for bike transport (and daily transport) if I could ...

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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by gruntguru » Wed May 08, 2019 12:42 am

The economics will drive the transition to EVs, blind Freddy can see where its heading.

Governments only need to apply a little extra pressure to those levers - make sure that the cost of the actual fossil fuels reflects the environment cost associated with their use. No need for knee-jerk reactions like banning combustion cars after year xyz, banning motorsport etc.

Kevin Johnson
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Kevin Johnson » Wed May 08, 2019 1:43 am

If you still use an ICE then your social credit score will drop.

Newold1
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Newold1 » Wed May 08, 2019 6:55 pm

Now Kevin that is a strong possibility! Geez, every time I fart or burp my credit score changes!

But for a few of you, I repeat the mass comments in the US when Henry Ford introduced the model T. "There won't be to many people giving up their horses and buggies to ride in one of those noisey contraptions" How predictive and prophetic!
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Kevin Johnson
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Re: Electric cars pollute more than

Post by Kevin Johnson » Wed May 08, 2019 7:46 pm

We need to share bicycles. That would promote a low carbon footprint, right?

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/ ... es/556268/

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