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Here is how to do it

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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Brian P
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Brian P »

... except that it's BS.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by SupStk »

Color me skeptical. I’d like to seen the motor completely dissembled and an explanation on how it works. I didn’t follow the deal concerning the tube and measuring air flow. Nothing was demonstrated or proven.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Newold1 »

This supposed motive force from magnets was demonstrated with this device in April 2010. If that's the case and it really creates power without any external power then it would be a type of perpetual motion from magnetic energy alone and if it were really as presented it would have blasted into the present day 9 years later! It has not, so where and why is it hiding??
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Brian P
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Re: Here is how to do it

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No matter what claims are made, and no matter how many times someone states otherwise, the laws of thermodynamics cannot be violated. Can't make something from nothing. The energy has to come from somewhere, and the entropy law means it can't magically appear out of thin air.
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Re: Here is how to do it

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Nope. The earth has momentum and thus kinetic energy associated with its motion which has been there since the formation of the solar system (and that kinetic energy came from the motions of the particles that came together to make the earth). Nuclear energy is associated with conversion of mass to energy in accordance with equations that Einstein derived. Electromagnetism still follows the basic laws of thermodynamics - electric motors (which use electromagnetism) don't create mechanical power out of nothing; it's coming from electricity.

I will grant that something big happened at the moment of creation of the universe which we, collectively, do not fully understand. But that's not what's happening inside a magnet.

BS-y explanations are called "hand-waving".
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Newold1 »

As I said if it is so amazing and it really works, where has it been for the last 10 years since this demonstration. Things that work that well do not disappear.
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Brian P
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Re: Here is how to do it

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No, you don't. Just try it.

More turns of finer wire will just require less current but more voltage to do the same job; the power (current x power) for the electromagnet to do a given task stays the same.

Applying less voltage to that coil will simply result in the electromagnet not delivering as much magnetism (force). If the driven load requires more torque than the now-de-rated motor can deliver, it stalls.

Electric motors, and their voltage and current requirements, are well understood.

You're the one attempting to violate well-understood thermodynamic laws ... the onus is on you. I'll stick with the well-understood laws.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by modok »

Perhaps the polite way to say it would be.....
Your magnet engine... is a topic for the religion forum,
that's the kind of engine it is
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Re: Here is how to do it

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That will prove nothing; such a primitive design will have efficiency so poor to begin with that your "measurement" is really only comparing "really bad" to "less bad". You're not getting something for nothing; you're simply coming closer (a little) to something that is functional at all.

I'll say it again ... the performance characteristics of electric motors are well understood, and they do not create something out of nothing.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Brian P »

I do know how electric motors work, but I also realise that it's hopeless to argue with someone who doesn't know what they don't know.
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Re: Here is how to do it

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exhaustgases wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 7:19 pm
Brian P wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 12:19 am No, you don't. Just try it.

More turns of finer wire will just require less current but more voltage to do the same job; the power (current x power) for the electromagnet to do a given task stays the same.

Applying less voltage to that coil will simply result in the electromagnet not delivering as much magnetism (force). If the driven load requires more torque than the now-de-rated motor can deliver, it stalls.

Electric motors, and their voltage and current requirements, are well understood.

You're the one attempting to violate well-understood thermodynamic laws ... the onus is on you. I'll stick with the well-understood laws.
Its a very simple test. You can use .030 ish dia magnet wire or, don't know a gauge right off hand, wind it on 2 3/8 x2 bolts with nuts to make a simple electro magnet, on one bolt put maybe 50 turns, on the next bolt put 200 to 300 or more turns what ever you want. Now connect the low # winding one to a 1.5v dry cell see how much it will pick up, then do the same with the high winding coil. Oh and don't forget to measure the amps each one takes.
Power in watts is = to the amps times the volts. In this case the volts remain the same, so you will see you get more power for less electrical power used.
This will tell you that if you add more turns you can increase the magnetic power more and use less electrical energy to do the task. And like fancy cam timing in an ICE, you could with proper timing use capacitors as counter emf recovery devices to help increase a motors field even more.
HOW CAN CURRENT X POWER BE POWER? DID YOU MEAN P=IE???
And sorry yes try it. Magnetic energy or field strength is not dependent on electrical energy applied. A simple magnet has no external applied energy source.
Yes the force increases. Force is not Power. Force is not Energy. Using an electromagnet to grab things is a zero efficiency machine. Electric energy in - zero energy out.

The earth's gravity can exert a great deal of force - it holds your car on the ground with a force of a 2000 lbf or more - but no energy is generated until you drop the car from a height. The earth-car system is now at a lower energy state. You can only recharge it by lifting the car back up - putting energy back in.

The earth spins (almost) forever because there is no friction in a vacuum.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by gruntguru »

exhaustgases wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 10:16 pmIt all can be tied into why we no longer have homesteading, because to the powers that be, want dependency, not independence. That is why there will never be a device like this allowed, it would create freedom. In answer to why we don't have this technology now.
Seriously??????
This thing is on U Tube with millions of views. If the device is for real it is the biggest gold mine in the history of civilisation.

Tell us - which "powers that be" are stopping GE or PRC or DPRK or Russia from exploiting this and dominating the world? And how are they doing it?
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by gruntguru »

exhaustgases wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:46 pm
gruntguru wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:45 pm .
Yes the force increases. Force is not Power. Force is not Energy. Using an electromagnet to grab things is a zero efficiency machine. Electric energy in - zero energy out.

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING HERE? THE MAGNET EXPERIMENT, ONLY PROVES THE INCREASE IN MAGNETIC FORCE, AND HOW TO ADD THE EXTRA FIELD FORCE IN THE MOTOR TO RUN IT WITH LESS ELECTRICAL ENERGY. FORCE SMORCE HORCE, IN AN ENGINE CYLINDER IT IS FORCE THAT DOES THE WORK, INCREASE THAT FORCE AND MORE POWER.
[/quote]
You can increase the magnetic field without any electricity - try a strong permanent magnet!

To convert the magnetic field to useful energy in an electric motor, you have to switch the magnetic field on and off (simplified explanation). Switching it on and off creates a thing called back emf and consequently it takes electrical energy to build and collapse the magnetic field. Your fine wire with more turns builds a stronger magnetic field but it builds slower - so you have to use more voltage to build it in the time available at a particular motor speed. There is no free lunch.

Billions of electric motors worldwide. Billions of dollars spent developing them and in particular trying to improve efficiency (energy out / energy in). The laws of thermodynamics dictate that the upper limit of efficiency is 1.0 - that's never been violated. Look at the chart below. Can you see the struggle to get efficiency approaching 100%? They can get close but it will never happen.

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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Zmechanic »

modok wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 2:10 am Perhaps the polite way to say it would be.....
Your magnet engine... is a topic for the religion forum,
that's the kind of engine it is
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Newold1 »

I like your enthusiasm for infinite motive power from magnets. I also get tired or hearing that people, companies and countries in this world are keeping free power from us poor souls.

I must say it if you believe a free form of power would have not been already in use if it were legitimate. I think your forum name here might say it best-you've been breathing in those exhaust gases to long and to hard! :lol:
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