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Here is how to do it

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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GRTfast
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by GRTfast »

exhaustgases wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:19 pm Just worry about using a set voltage and tell me what happens to the supplied power, when increasing the windings.
Your too busy trying to make something simple complicated.
You need to consider the internal resistance of the power source, as it is part of the circuit. You also need to consider magnetic saturation, and the material properties of the wire limiting the temperature it can tolerate. This is essentially an optimization problem. For a given set of parameters, the coil dimensions can be found such that the best efficiency is achieved....and it will never ever be over 100%.
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Hitchens
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by gruntguru »

exhaustgases wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:44 pmGrunt, now capture that counter emf, and use it. At least we proved we can get more mag force for less, thank you.
Time ? The device doesn't have to run at thousands of RPMs.
The key thing is that to use an EM as a motor, you have to CHANGE the magnetic field strength. To change the magnetic field strength you have to supply energy. The energy you get out of your motor will never be as much as the energy you have to put in - period. Stop pissing in the wind - build it - prove us wrong.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Nefario »

exhaustgases wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:19 pm Just worry about using a set voltage and tell me what happens to the supplied power, when increasing the windings.
Very simply - I didn't study much about coil design - Electrical power = V x I (volts x amps)

Ohms Law: V = IR (amps x resistance), I = V/R

Say R-40 turns = "40", R-300 = "300"

Power = V**2/R --> Power40 = V**2/40, Power300 = V**2/300, At a set voltage V the larger coil simply acts as a larger resistor and LIMITS the amounts of power than can flow through the winding. The magnet may be more efficient - or not - but magnetic energy out can't be greater than electrical energy in - this is the first s̶u̶g̶g̶e̶s̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ law of thermodynamics.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by GRTfast »

exhaustgases wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:05 pm The silence is deafening.
The force is not stronger for a coil with more turns (all else equal) at the some voltage as a coil with less turns. The force is constant in an ideal case, but in reality it decreases as you add more turns. There is an optimum coil geometry for a given constant voltage power source.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/do ... 1&type=pdf

What is your point again?
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Nefario »

exhaustgases wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:32 pm ....So the 2.5 foot wire on the small winding coil takes 10.68 watts, and the 20 foot wire on the large coil takes 1.335 watts. So by this we see the big and more powerful magnetic force coil takes way less power to operate than the small less powerful one does. And I tested this over 30 years ago.
"The silence..." was taking a weekend break....

The 20-foot wire provides enough windings to create a stronger magnetic field. The shorter wire make fewer windings, generates fewer lines of force, and is converting more of the electric power to heat.
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Re: Here is how to do it

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exhaustgases wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:48 am
Nefario wrote: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:13 pm
exhaustgases wrote: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:32 pm ....So the 2.5 foot wire on the small winding coil takes 10.68 watts, and the 20 foot wire on the large coil takes 1.335 watts. So by this we see the big and more powerful magnetic force coil takes way less power to operate than the small less powerful one does. And I tested this over 30 years ago.
"The silence..." was taking a weekend break....

The 20-foot wire provides enough windings to create a stronger magnetic field. The shorter wire make fewer windings, generates fewer lines of force, and is converting more of the electric power to heat.
Tell it to GRT he's the expert. That has proven he knows nothing about electromagnets, yeah this is one thing I have tried, and its a proven fact.
Simple ohms law stuff. More mag force for less electrical power. Fact.
For any solenoid there is an optimum arrangement. I don't think anyone is denying this. What I want you to clearly articulate is the following:

How does this show that an over unity motor is possible?
How does this show that a motor using only permanent magnets is possible?
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by John Wallace »

There are a few more things involved besides Ohm's Law.
Here's a link to some info.

Inductance

Faraday/Lenz/Kirchoff and many more apply.

Ignorance of the laws don't mean they don't apply.

:)
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Re: Here is how to do it

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exhaustgases wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:11 pm
GRTfast wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:03 pm How does this show that an over unity motor is possible?
How does this show that a motor using only permanent magnets is possible?
YOU NEVER CHECKED OUT THE LINK THAT SHOWED IT.
I've never mentioned over unity that's your thing. I have said to do it electrically. You could get more out of the electric motor than the electrical energy used. That is how Joe Newman's motors work, large coils with small amounts of electric power running them. Just like I showed you.
I've used the permanent magnets to show its magnetism doing the work in a motor, so figure out how to make magnetism efficiently.
Your in a box with your thinking, inventors have to think outside the established box to get anything done.
So for something interesting what is the resistance in the field and armature of the starter motor in your car?
Newman’s motor doesn’t do that, and you can’t build one that does. Magnets alone do no work. None. Zero. The provide a force. To use that force to do work, you’ve either got to put work in (push to magnets together with like poles facing each other), or you’ve got to change the field. The changing field is what does work, and it takes energy to make the field change. There is no motor that runs on permanent magnets alone, no matter how much you or any con man says there is.

Build one. Prove me wrong. Anything aside from that is a deflection. If you don’t have the money, maybe you can con some folks like your hero joe did.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by Nefario »

exhaustgases wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:11 pm That is how Joe Newman's motors work
Aha! A source! Here's some interesting reading..."One of Newman's amazing discoveries is that coils having many turns of wire generate a given magnetic field with a lower input current than coils with fewer turns. Well even Michael Faraday knew that. Next he claims that increasing the number of turns reduces the power used." Where has this been typed before??

http://www.phact.org/articles/free/newman.php
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Re: Here is how to do it

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By “here is how to do it”, are you referring to fleecing gullible people out of money using an idea that’s physically impossible?
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Re: Here is how to do it

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exhaustgases wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm
GRTfast wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:18 pm
By “here is how to do it”, are you referring to fleecing gullible people out of money using an idea that’s physically impossible?
Its been done by many. Its a power device that does not fit the control structure narrative. Like with Tesla's warden cliff tower, no one that runs the electrical business wants people to have free electric power nor anyother free energy, funny they support the solar though . Solar is no problem with them because they know it is only a part time energy source.
It’s a power device that doesn’t exist. There is no “free” energy. Force does not equal energy no matter what you say. You can not demonstrate that it does. You can however show videos made by con artists that fleece money out of the ignorant and gullible.

If your claims were true, wouldn’t you think that power plants would use this technology in order to not have to buy any fuel, then keep selling the power to make insane profits? Instead they use turbines operating at around 60-65% efficiency (shaft work out/heat in) and generators operating at 99% efficiency (power out/shaft work in).
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way. -Hitchens
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Re: Here is how to do it

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exhaustgases wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pmLike with Tesla's warden cliff tower, no one that runs the electrical business wants people to have free electric power nor anyother free energy, funny they support the solar though . Solar is no problem with them because they know it is only a part time energy source.
The real difference is that energy from the sun is real and anything that delivers energy from nothing is fantasy.
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by gruntguru »

Big difference. "Magnet motors" need electric energy as an input - to generate mechanical energy (work) as an output. The input energy is ALWAYS larger than the useful output.

The "fantasy" is a motor that can do useful mechanical work - without any energy input.

Anyone who thinks they know better than the millions of engineers and scientists who have spent entire careers optimising the efficiency of electrical machines and FULLY UNDERSTAND the underlying physics is living in a world of fantasy.
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Re: Here is how to do it

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exhaustgases wrote: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:34 pm Every day millions of magnet motors deliver energy. They even start all gasoline and diesel engines, turbines as well. Magnetic force is not a fantasy.
..But none of those motors run on permanent magnets alone. ](*,)
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Re: Here is how to do it

Post by gruntguru »

Yes - there is a reason they are called ELECTRIC MOTORS. There is no such thing as a "magnet motor".
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