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I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:40 pm
by gmrocket
But I don't see anything on the ground? Over night or when I leave my hybrid parked for any period of time...I lose some distance?

Extreme cold it's worse, and extreme heat it's ever more worse...

Sometimes I go out in the middle of the night to see if someone is symphoning my electrons out while I'm sleeping...nope

Where am I losing it?

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:10 pm
by Newold1
I am by far not a lithium battery pack expert or knowledgable in related charging and cooling systems, but I suspect that some thing is amiss either with the charging system, the battery cooling system or the batteries themselves. I would consult a knowledgeable shop or technician that services these items as I am sure this happens in many EV's and hybrids that act up. THERE ARE NO PERFECT CARS-ELECTRIC OR IC ENGINED :roll: !!

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:24 pm
by Brian P
Would help to know make/model/year and how this apparent "loss of distance" is making itself known. Some EVs have battery temperature regulating systems that are active even when the "engine" is "off" in the interest of having the battery already in the optimum temperature range when you hop in the car and want to go. Others have no battery temperature regulation at all and the battery may have less useful capacity when outside of its best operating temperature range. It is also entirely possible that the battery capacity is exactly the same, but real-world range is being lost due to heavier HVAC usage in very cold or very hot ambient temperature.

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:50 pm
by lefty o
radical electrons, and they have escaped. :lol:

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:07 am
by Kevin Johnson

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:32 pm
by PackardV8
Without the year, model and percentage of loss, none here has enough info to really contribute.

Batteries are dynamic systems. They vary with temperature.

The dashboard readouts are random number generators. Some base the charge/range on the last driving cycle and temperatures during that drive. Some read actual charge and estimate on algorithms. Never assume them to be accurate.

And yes, some battery conditioning systems operate without you.

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:39 pm
by Dave Koehler
If after 2 weeks your electrons start filling up seek out the local guy that used to own a VW. He is getting his revenge.

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:22 am
by gmrocket
Well I finally figured it out.. it seems it's a phantom stealing my stored electrons when it's just sitting there.

Those who said or thought it was something in the cars system that was draining it,, nope

I disconnected the main storage battery from the system to verify that.. still had the same loss. It's quite a bit now since it's really cold here now

It seems every EV and hybrid experiences th same "phantom " loss , although to differing degrees.

Every manufacturer calls it the same thing,, phantom! Sounds kinda cool and mysterious anyway,, I don't feel so bad now because of the cool exotic name given to a thing called "battery drain" during storage , which sounds real suck azz for a high priced green vehicle ...phantom is way more woke

🤡

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:09 am
by hoodeng
We used to call it "moonlight milking"

Cheers.

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:37 am
by FC-Pilot
While doing battery and EV testing for Ford out in Arizona in the summer we were testing battery efficiency in high heat and documenting just how much efficiency loss we were seeing due to the heat (120-140* F). After gathering some good data (and having fun doing it) we saw that no matter what there was significant loss due to the heat, and when prolonged saw permanent storage capacity loss. After quantifying the findings we were very surprised to see that the greater loss was in cold weather vs hot weather. The data I saw did not show the permanent loss as in the high heat, but the loss from charge was greatest in the cold. Just an FYI.

Paul

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:50 am
by lefty o
even in perfect conditions, batteries are an inefficient energy storage , and transfer device.

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:24 pm
by Kevin Johnson
FC-Pilot wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:37 am
While doing battery and EV testing for Ford out in Arizona in the summer we were testing battery efficiency in high heat and documenting just how much efficiency loss we were seeing due to the heat (120-140* F). After gathering some good data (and having fun doing it) we saw that no matter what there was significant loss due to the heat, and when prolonged saw permanent storage capacity loss. After quantifying the findings we were very surprised to see that the greater loss was in cold weather vs hot weather. The data I saw did not show the permanent loss as in the high heat, but the loss from charge was greatest in the cold. Just an FYI.

Paul
https://www.nrel.gov/transportation/ass ... /50916.pdf See especially page 22.

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:03 am
by FC-Pilot
Kevin Johnson wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:24 pm
https://www.nrel.gov/transportation/ass ... /50916.pdf See especially page 22.
Good info. The data I saw showed similar hot weather results, but saw a difference in the cold weather results. Anyway, our testing is now seven or eight years old which is a lifetime with how some of this stuff is moving. lol

Paul

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:56 am
by gmrocket
FC-Pilot wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:37 am
While doing battery and EV testing for Ford out in Arizona in the summer we were testing battery efficiency in high heat and documenting just how much efficiency loss we were seeing due to the heat (120-140* F). After gathering some good data (and having fun doing it) we saw that no matter what there was significant loss due to the heat, and when prolonged saw permanent storage capacity loss. After quantifying the findings we were very surprised to see that the greater loss was in cold weather vs hot weather. The data I saw did not show the permanent loss as in the high heat, but the loss from charge was greatest in the cold. Just an FYI.

Paul
Yup, your right on everything...even the make,, it's a Ford

The loss is greater in the cold. But the power required (by the gasoline, dirty fossil fuel engine 😂) to run the fan and secondary A/C for battery cooling ... is a killer in the heat... the A/C will run non stop in the heat....it effectively has two A/C units.

Not very green or efficient to me.

Re: I think I'm leaking?

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:07 am
by gmrocket
Kevin Johnson wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:24 pm
FC-Pilot wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:37 am
While doing battery and EV testing for Ford out in Arizona in the summer we were testing battery efficiency in high heat and documenting just how much efficiency loss we were seeing due to the heat (120-140* F). After gathering some good data (and having fun doing it) we saw that no matter what there was significant loss due to the heat, and when prolonged saw permanent storage capacity loss. After quantifying the findings we were very surprised to see that the greater loss was in cold weather vs hot weather. The data I saw did not show the permanent loss as in the high heat, but the loss from charge was greatest in the cold. Just an FYI.

Paul
https://www.nrel.gov/transportation/ass ... /50916.pdf See especially page 22.
That kinda sucks...I said before, in hot or cold climates they are not practical. Or where it's hilly, or where there isn't a generous incentive plan by the government ( your neighbor) or where they charge you a small fortune to get rid of the battery pack,, or if you drive randomly not know where you can plug in,,or crash for the night at your friends place so you can "charge up" for free

Other than that,, they are perfect