Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

GLHS60. There is a very good reason car engines are usually referred to as "engines". It is because it helps to be specific. If it is an engine - yes call it an engine. If you labelled a product "Poultry Breast" people would be curious and probably suspicious.

Now here is "a logical reason to call an engine a "motor""

Say you see an unusual car accelerating silently and very quickly down the road and you have a question. The correct phrasing would be "what sort of 'motor' does that car have?" If it turns out the car has a Chev V8 that's fine. You haven't misspoken - the machine providing the motive power for any car is always a "motor". In this case that motor also happens to be an engine. If you had said "what sort of engine does that car have?" the answer might have been "its not an engine, its an electric car" - the word "motor" is a better choice in this circumstance.

There is also a logical reason to call a chicken a bird (or poultry).

Say you bite into a delicious piece of grilled breast meat and say "what sort of poultry is this?" If it turns out to be chicken all is good - chicken is also poultry. If you had said "what sort of chicken is this?" you would be embarrassed if the answer was "its not chicken its duck". The word "poultry" or "bird" is a better choice in this circumstance.

Your entire post is illogical.

log•ic•al lŏj′ĭ-kəl►
adj. Of, relating to, in accordance with, or of the nature of logic.
adj. Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or conditions; reasonable.
adj. Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.

As I have said. There is a good reason car manufacturers refer to their motors as "engines". It is the same reason Valley Poultry refer to many of their products as "chicken". It is not because and engine is not a motor - it is. It is not because chicken is not poultry - it is.

Many motor cars are powered by engines.

"Every motor car on earth is power by a motor."

Do yourself a favour. Please replace the word "motor" in the previous sentence with a better word.

Motor - A Haiku
by Anonymous
Beamy summertime
A logical motor runs
watching the engine

https://www.poem-generator.org.uk/

GLHS60 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:50 pm Every motor car on earth is a form of a horseless carriage.

Most are powered by Internal Combustion Engines.

Electric motors are becoming more popular.

Hybrids combine the 2 in many ways.

There is still no logical reason to call an Engine a motor!!

So is this sentence logical?

"Every motor car on earth is powered by a motor."

If using the word "motor" in this sentence is not logical, please tell me what word I should have used.

GLHS60 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:50 pm Its silly to call them all birds.
Each needs an identity.

. . and each family of things needs an identity.

Which group of animals have wings and feathers?

Hint. The answer is not "chickens".

I agree with your point. If you know the thing you are referring to is an engine, it is better to call it an "engine" because that defines it more accurately than "motor".

That does not mean it is incorrect to call it a "motor" - just less accurate. Any power plant that drives a car is a motor. There are also occasions when it is more correct to call it a "motor", for example when you don't know for sure what is under the hood eg "what sort of motor is in that car?" In that situation - it is not logical to the motor an engine.

In 1945, at the ripe old age of twenty-six, George Marshall Naul, a chemical engineer, wrote a paper entitled "Motor or Engine?"

One of the interesting and questionable assertions of that paper was that the "steam-engine" was a misnomer and it should have been the "steam-motor."

Twenty-four years later he helped found The Society of Automotive Historians.

The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH) encourages research, preservation, recording, compilation and publication of historical facts concerning the development of the automobile and related items throughout the world.

I agree with the aims of that society.

https://www.fhnfuneralhome.com/obituari ... !/Obituary

RIP

Thank you for conceding the point that in, say, 1912, the terms "engine" and "motor" were used synonymously and that, in 1912, there was a logical reason to call an engine a motor.



It is not a good idea to try to rewrite history, as I think Mr. Naul came to understand over the passage of time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aside:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prime%20mover#h1 wrote: First Known Use of prime mover
1795, in the meaning defined at sense 1a

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&l ... 22&f=false

Tuesday, November 22nd 1709.

Scary, eh?

In the field of thermodynamics, a "heat engine" is a device which harnesses heat from a high temperature source, rejects some of that heat to a lower temperature "sink" and converts the remaining heat energy to "work" (mechanical energy). Steam engines, usually operating on the Rankine Cycle belong to the engine subset referred to as "external combustion engines" where combustion does not take place in the "working fluid" (the steam). A "steam engine" includes the heat source (the burner if combustion), the boiler and the condenser where fitted. Some steam engines get their heat from other sources eg solar, geothermal, waste heat (eg from a furnace or gas turbine engine) or even the atmosphere or ocean surface (where a much colder "sink" is available eg deep ocean).

Interestingly, thermodynamicists often treat electrical energy as equivalent to work (conversion between mechanical work and electrical energy can be done with virtually 100% efficiency). This means that devices converting heat directly to electricity (thermoelectric generators) are also a type of engine.

I know it is sometimes difficult to place oneself in the past. Fortunately, there survives a great deal of historic information about the time of the emergence of the automobile or horseless carriage.

Henry Ford preserved his biography and it is clear that the major influence on his usage of the terms motor and engine had little to do with electricity. He does mention it, of course.

When I lived in Illinois and Michigan there were still many people that spoke German as a primary/secondary language and so "motor" was in common usage as a borrowed term. The land that I lived on in Illinois once belonged to the German family whose descendant was my High School German teacher. A number of the workers in my Grandfather's laboratory in Detroit spoke German.

Here is some relevant information:

https://www.cmich.edu/library/clarke/Re ... apers.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#Early_life

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If you have never visited the museum and village in Dearborn, it is worthwhile. I lived in Dearborn for a number of years and used to bicycle around the circumference of the property. A Great Grandfather on my Mother's side helped install the wooden flooring in the museum when it was built and surveyed a good deal of land in the Southeast of Michigan.

http://everyspec.com/ARMY/ARMY-General/ ... 055539.pdf

You might enjoy the above; extensive use is made of the term '"prime mover."

GLHS60 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:25 am Gentle Friend:

Coincidentally, I just noticed this Technical Reference on another thread.

The author nicely defines vehicle powerplants on PDF pages 81-82

Steam Engine, electric motor and internal combustion Engine.

I hope you find the poster credible, I know I certainly do.

Comments/criticisms gratefully accepted.

Thanks
Randy

http://www.edccorp.com/library/TechRefPdfs/EDC-1110.pdf

Kevin Johnson wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:48 am Thank you for conceding the point that in, say, 1912, the terms "engine" and "motor" were used synonymously and that, in 1912, there was a logical reason to call an engine a motor.

Kevin Johnson wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:31 am http://everyspec.com/ARMY/ARMY-General/ ... 055539.pdf

You might enjoy the above; extensive use is made of the term '"prime mover."

GLHS60 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:25 am Gentle Friend:

Coincidentally, I just noticed this Technical Reference on another thread.

The author nicely defines vehicle powerplants on PDF pages 81-82

Steam Engine, electric motor and internal combustion Engine.

I hope you find the poster credible, I know I certainly do.

Comments/criticisms gratefully accepted.

Thanks
Randy

http://www.edccorp.com/library/TechRefPdfs/EDC-1110.pdf

Kevin Johnson wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:48 am Thank you for conceding the point that in, say, 1912, the terms "engine" and "motor" were used synonymously and that, in 1912, there was a logical reason to call an engine a motor.

I just put a new cam in the prime mover of my motor car.