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Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

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GLHS60
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by GLHS60 »

Every motor car on earth is a form of a horseless carriage.

Most are powered by Internal Combustion Engines.

Electric motors are becoming more popular.

Hybrids combine the 2 in many ways.

Its silly to call them all birds.

Each needs an identity.

This is why..

There is still no logical reason to call an Engine a motor!!

Thanks
Randy
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
Kevin Johnson
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

Motor - A Haiku
by Anonymous
Beamy summertime
A logical motor runs
watching the engine

https://www.poem-generator.org.uk/
GLHS60
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by GLHS60 »

I love that Engine, listen to that Engine, that's the best Engine..1:50
https://youtu.be/nQKDQCYsEZM
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by gruntguru »

GLHS60 wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:50 pm Every motor car on earth is a form of a horseless carriage.

Most are powered by Internal Combustion Engines.

Electric motors are becoming more popular.

Hybrids combine the 2 in many ways.

There is still no logical reason to call an Engine a motor!!
So is this sentence logical?

"Every motor car on earth is powered by a motor."

If using the word "motor" in this sentence is not logical, please tell me what word I should have used.
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by gruntguru »

GLHS60 wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:50 pm Its silly to call them all birds.
Each needs an identity.
. . and each family of things needs an identity.

Which group of animals have wings and feathers?

Hint. The answer is not "chickens".
GLHS60
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by GLHS60 »

Try to understand I'm not an ornithologist or have any real interest in birds.

I'm a simple Engine man interested only in Engines and Turbo chargers.

At the store I often buy chicken wings, never thought to ask for bird wings.

While discussing Engines I might add another qualifier like Diesel or steam.

Some old Hot Rodders sometimes use terms like Mill, Stove or plant.

No problem as these are simply terms of endearment for beloved Engines.

We commonly are fascinated by it's reciprocating, mechanical complexity.

Throw in some combustion and we can search relentlessly for more torque.

A few degrees of this and a few degrees of that change it's characteristics.

We can be scientific or redneck in search of our individual improvements.

Electric motors no doubt intrigue the electricity type in their own way.

Similar to how electrical guys rarely, if ever, confuse Engine and motor

There is no logical reason for Engine guys to call their Engine a motor.

Each deserve an identity but only some Engine guys fail to respect Engines.

Thanks
Randy
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by gruntguru »

I agree with your point. If you know the thing you are referring to is an engine, it is better to call it an "engine" because that defines it more accurately than "motor".

That does not mean it is incorrect to call it a "motor" - just less accurate. Any power plant that drives a car is a motor. There are also occasions when it is more correct to call it a "motor", for example when you don't know for sure what is under the hood eg "what sort of motor is in that car?" In that situation - it is not logical to the motor an engine.
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by GLHS60 »

We've courteously reached pretty good common ground.

That's a win for both of us!!

Thanks
Randy
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by gruntguru »

:hello2: :hello2:
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

In 1945, at the ripe old age of twenty-six, George Marshall Naul, a chemical engineer, wrote a paper entitled "Motor or Engine?"

One of the interesting and questionable assertions of that paper was that the "steam-engine" was a misnomer and it should have been the "steam-motor."

Twenty-four years later he helped found The Society of Automotive Historians.
The Society of Automotive Historians (SAH) encourages research, preservation, recording, compilation and publication of historical facts concerning the development of the automobile and related items throughout the world.
I agree with the aims of that society.

https://www.fhnfuneralhome.com/obituari ... !/Obituary

RIP
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by GLHS60 »

I think you misinterpreted Mr Naul's definitions.

An Engine is a prime mover complete in itself, requiring only a fuel tank.

A motor requires an outside source of energy such as a battery to do work.

By his definition a steam Engine is a motor as it can't boil its own water.

Similar to an air, vacuum, solar or air motor.

Today, most horseless carriages contain several motors and one Engine.

Today, the balance of said horseless carriages contain only motors.

Today, none are steam so his 1945 steam motor term is hollow.

Today, there is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

Thanks
Randy
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
Kevin Johnson
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

Thank you for conceding the point that in, say, 1912, the terms "engine" and "motor" were used synonymously and that, in 1912, there was a logical reason to call an engine a motor.

:wink:

It is not a good idea to try to rewrite history, as I think Mr. Naul came to understand over the passage of time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aside:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prime%20mover#h1 wrote: First Known Use of prime mover
1795, in the meaning defined at sense 1a
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&l ... 22&f=false

Tuesday, November 22nd 1709.

Scary, eh?
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by gruntguru »

In the field of thermodynamics, a "heat engine" is a device which harnesses heat from a high temperature source, rejects some of that heat to a lower temperature "sink" and converts the remaining heat energy to "work" (mechanical energy). Steam engines, usually operating on the Rankine Cycle belong to the engine subset referred to as "external combustion engines" where combustion does not take place in the "working fluid" (the steam). A "steam engine" includes the heat source (the burner if combustion), the boiler and the condenser where fitted. Some steam engines get their heat from other sources eg solar, geothermal, waste heat (eg from a furnace or gas turbine engine) or even the atmosphere or ocean surface (where a much colder "sink" is available eg deep ocean).

Interestingly, thermodynamicists often treat electrical energy as equivalent to work (conversion between mechanical work and electrical energy can be done with virtually 100% efficiency). This means that devices converting heat directly to electricity (thermoelectric generators) are also a type of engine.
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by GLHS60 »

As you well know I love history and have no desire to change it.

Some of us learn from history and acknowledge the past mistakes.

First, one has to understand the term motoring in order to proceed.

Motoring is travelling in a self propelled vehicle over land or water.

Motor car, motor, motor cycle, motor boat, all travel over land or water.

Most early auto mobiles were electric, with a battery powering a motor.

This is considered the genesis of the big misunderstood terminology error.

Motor car, bike, cycle or boat must have motors guessed to our ancestors.

However, Ford Motor Company and Dodge brothers etc. built many Engines.

The synonymousness was now in the past as evidenced by many EXXON ads.

Those many Engines then powered their motor cars, only not using motors.

Up about the 1940's Chevrolet and others often confused Engine and motor.

Logic prevailed by the 1950's and each then received their proper identity.

Each have maintained their rightful identity up to today and continue on.

Today, there is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.

Thanks
Randy


Kevin Johnson wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:48 am Thank you for conceding the point that in, say, 1912, the terms "engine" and "motor" were used synonymously and that, in 1912, there was a logical reason to call an engine a motor.

:wink:
It is not a good idea to try to rewrite history, as I think Mr. Naul came to understand over the passage of time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aside:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prime%20mover#h1 wrote: First Known Use of prime mover
1795, in the meaning defined at sense 1a
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&l ... 22&f=false

Tuesday, November 22nd 1709.

Scary, eh?
Sherwood Park
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There is no logical reason to call an Engine a motor.
Kevin Johnson
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Re: Charging-at-a-Distance-While-in-Motion?

Post by Kevin Johnson »

I know it is sometimes difficult to place oneself in the past. Fortunately, there survives a great deal of historic information about the time of the emergence of the automobile or horseless carriage.

Henry Ford preserved his biography and it is clear that the major influence on his usage of the terms motor and engine had little to do with electricity. He does mention it, of course.

When I lived in Illinois and Michigan there were still many people that spoke German as a primary/secondary language and so "motor" was in common usage as a borrowed term. The land that I lived on in Illinois once belonged to the German family whose descendant was my High School German teacher. A number of the workers in my Grandfather's laboratory in Detroit spoke German.

Here is some relevant information:

https://www.cmich.edu/library/clarke/Re ... apers.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#Early_life

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If you have never visited the museum and village in Dearborn, it is worthwhile. I lived in Dearborn for a number of years and used to bicycle around the circumference of the property. A Great Grandfather on my Mother's side helped install the wooden flooring in the museum when it was built and surveyed a good deal of land in the Southeast of Michigan.
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