Why would you want a electric car ?

Anything to do with the electric or hybrid world

Moderator: Team

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 9802
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

EV's should come with a swappable battery just like your cell phone and your cordless drill.
User avatar
modok
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3321
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:50 am
Location:

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by modok »

I totally agree.
Should be standardized battery packs. And I think there will be.
The market for electric cars is still ironically -high end/luxury- and so they aren't concerned with it at the moment.
PackardV8
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7619
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:03 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by PackardV8 »

F-BIRD'88 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:41 pm EV's should come with a swappable battery just like your cell phone and your cordless drill.
Should be standardized battery packs. And I think there will be.
Two different suggestions at work above.

The battery packs are swappable. GM is at present replacing the battery pack on all 180,000 Bolts because maybe ten of them have caught fire. The swap takes one technician five hours. If you mean swappable in five minutes, that is unlikely to happen next generation. Been tried but abandoned for now.

As to standardized battery packs, just as with engines and tranmissions, technology changes so rapidly and packaging requirements change every model change, OEMs are unlikely to accept universal standards.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 9802
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Standardization of key parts like the battery reduce unit costs
Economy of scale.. So far EV's are boutique novelties for
rich people. If they want to replace the ICE in large numbers and be the dominate power method of the car/truck fleet they need to make EV's much cheaper and easy to service.. Economy of scale thru standardized key parts.
Just like Henry Ford did with the Model T.
Until the model T and its ecomony of scale fast low cost manufacturing methods cars were boutique novelties of the well to do.. Henry Ford made cars that the every man could buy and fix.
What goes around comes around. Tesla needs to get their act together. The average Joe does not want nor need a car that can run 10's in the 1/4 mi. in ludicrice mode. The public needs a EV that sells for under $22k.
PackardV8
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7619
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:03 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by PackardV8 »

F-BIRD'88 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:02 pm Standardization of key parts like the battery reduce unit costs. Economy of scale.. . . . The public needs a EV that sells for under $22k.
What the public needs and what they choose to buy has no convergence. FWIW, the average retail of new vehicles in the US is now above $40,000. Few actually need a Quad Cab King Ranch Harley Davidson Special Edition 2500 F250 which averages 13.5 MPG, but they stand in line to pay $75,000 for the next one available.

FWIW, the car cost of the EV is essentially the same as an ICE and the motor/drivetrain is actually less. Once the battery costs achieve the economy of scale you mention, an EV would cost less than an ICE. Key to speeding up transition is a carbon tax, but no politician can be re-elected doing the right thing if it's going to bring short-term economic pain to the voters.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
User avatar
modok
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3321
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:50 am
Location:

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by modok »

Batteries degrade over time even if they are just stored and not used.

Once you battery performance drops too low for an EV It could be used for some other purpose.

Why would you NOT do that?
If you want to run an EV battery until it's 60% "used up" you are just hauling around 40% dead weight, what a waste.
PackardV8
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7619
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:03 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by PackardV8 »

modok wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:34 pm Batteries degrade over time even if they are just stored and not used.

Once you battery performance drops too low for an EV It could be used for some other purpose.

Why would you NOT do that?
If you want to run an EV battery until it's 60% "used up" you are just hauling around 40% dead weight, what a waste.
ICE performance degrades over the miles. How many out on the road every day are operating at far lower efficiency than when new? We see many Audi/M-B, BMWs scrapped because the cost of R&R an engine is greater than the value of the running car. Never own a German car after the warranty has expired.

But yes, at some future EV generation, replacement of batteries will be far easier than replacing an ICE engine in today's cars.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
User avatar
modok
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3321
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:50 am
Location:

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by modok »

That is an interesting question, it sure varies. Most are over-rated and some are under-rated :wink:
Same with batteries
tjs44
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:30 pm
Location: long beach.ca

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by tjs44 »

FYI,I got a ride in a Tesla on a Uber trip a couple days ago.Talked to the owner about the cost to charge it.He drives about 20K miles a year and it costs him $200 a month to charge it at home.He has the 220 charger.He says its usually about $16- $18 dollars to do a quick charge at a Tesla charge station depending on how low it is.Tom
gruntguru
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1560
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:56 pm
Location:

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by gruntguru »

So $2,400 per year to drive 20,000 miles. 12c/mile or 7.5c/km
Clemson327
New Member
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:38 pm
Location: SC

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by Clemson327 »

That guy’s rate for power must be insanely high, but maybe I’m just spoiled living in SC. I’ve driven 24k miles in the 15 months I’ve owned my Model S, and I pay about $60/month to charge at home with 220.
PSA
Member
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:57 am
Location:

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by PSA »

I wouldn't mind one for local trips, shopping, etc.
But the way it is right now here, we actually set a European record in fuel prices $8.30/gallon for gasoline and a couple of cents more for diesel.
And it was still cheaper than an electric car.
Volvo also released a study a week or two ago that show how much green electricity that is needed to actually make a benefit over ICE, and it's not much fossil fuel at all that can be used in the making of electricity.
I guess we have to start somewhere, but it sure is a long way yet.
PackardV8
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7619
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:03 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by PackardV8 »

PSA wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:19 pm I wouldn't mind one for local trips, shopping, etc.
But the way it is right now here, we actually set a European record in fuel prices $8.30/gallon for gasoline and a couple of cents more for diesel.
And it was still cheaper than an electric car.
Volvo also released a study a week or two ago that show how much green electricity that is needed to actually make a benefit over ICE, and it's not much fossil fuel at all that can be used in the making of electricity.
I guess we have to start somewhere, but it sure is a long way yet.
If a seventy-six-year-old gear head can tell everyone an EV is the perfect local use car, believe it. Since we're in the Pacific Northwest USA, most of our electricity generation comes from hydro power, the kilowatts are affordable. It costs less to power our car than to heat our hot tub.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
tjs44
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:30 pm
Location: long beach.ca

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by tjs44 »

What is not high in CA?pretty much all major brand gas is right at or over $5,91 in the $5.45 range.Tom
PSA
Member
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:57 am
Location:

Re: Why would you want a electric car ?

Post by PSA »

PackardV8 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:34 pm
PSA wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:19 pm I wouldn't mind one for local trips, shopping, etc.
But the way it is right now here, we actually set a European record in fuel prices $8.30/gallon for gasoline and a couple of cents more for diesel.
And it was still cheaper than an electric car.
Volvo also released a study a week or two ago that show how much green electricity that is needed to actually make a benefit over ICE, and it's not much fossil fuel at all that can be used in the making of electricity.
I guess we have to start somewhere, but it sure is a long way yet.
If a seventy-six-year-old gear head can tell everyone an EV is the perfect local use car, believe it. Since we're in the Pacific Northwest USA, most of our electricity generation comes from hydro power, the kilowatts are affordable. It costs less to power our car than to heat our hot tub.
I really don't mind electric cars, especially if it means that we can keep our old cars and race cars for recreational use in the future.
But here it's not more "green" at the moment, as the green politics has shut down nuclear power plants, so we are burning oil here and importing coal power from other countries. 1kw/h was $0.88 the other day.
Post Reply