Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!

[PackardV8]

That's the everyday third-world engine build. That it's "a rare bird for sure" on Speed-Talk is why most of us are here.

[quickd100]

13-14 years ago I was a broke Motorhead raising 3 kids. I was doing odd jobs to save money to build a Hemi. E-85 hit the local market and I thought it might be the answer for replacing race gas. It didn't hurt that at the time there was a $1 subsidy on it also.
I decided to screw together a high compression motor and try it. All I had to work with was junk off the garage floor and I wanted to see how cheap I could get by with. I sorted through dozens of old used factory 440 pistons and found 8 with the highest compression height offered and a used set of factory rods. I sorted though my pile of used rods and main bearings, (I never throw anything away) and found useable sets. I had an old set of cast iron rings from 40 years ago from jc whitney. Gaskets were from leftover sets and the headgaskets were a set someone gave me a few years before, the cam and lifters were used that I'd run in another motor, an old MP .528 solid. I had a set of cast iron heads '452's that I had milled .100, I had $300 into them.
My biggest downfall on the project was picking the first block off the top of the pile, it had a ton of cylinder taper and I just honed it and used it anyway. The compression worked out to 11.8-1. The biggest expense was the purchase of an LM-1 meter.
I dropped the $300 440 in my 60' Dodge topped it off with a 850 Thermoquad that I modified for E-85 and headed to the dragstrip. It ran very well the front half of the track picking the front wheels about 8-12" off the ground leaving the line. From about the 660 mark through the end it looked like a mosquito fogger, everyone asked it I was using low tension oil rings and I'd laugh and have to admit it was very poor ring seal.
A few years later I bought my L&S engine Dyno and that was the first motor I dyno'd. From my memory it made decent power till about 3000-3500 rpm then it blew the breathers off the valve covers and ballooned the steel breastplate gasket under the intake manifold. My first lesson on ring seal.

[Circlotron]

So, is blueprinting overrated then?

[novadude]

I love reading about junk that runs. The internet would have you believe that every engine needs trick parts.

I've seen so many cars with trick parts that don't run because the 'builders' don't have a clue and/or follow good engine building practices. The advent of the internet seems to have made a lot of people believe you can just open the boxes the brown truck leaves on the porch, throw them together in 2 hours, and have a deadly reliable 10 second car.

[Keith Morganstein]

One of the local rebuilders put a cocktail SBC engine together for the shop truck, using up whatever left over mongrel parts he had. Different oversized pistons, different heads and a good sounding camshaft. One of the customers just had to have the engine from the truck. The owner said "you don't want this engine" but the customer hounded him insisting "that thing is an animal"'. So he finally pulled it out and sold it to him.

[David Vizard]

The motor required for this car was a SB Ford.

I’m just wondering what kind of mods were done to that mid-80’s corvette head to get it to work on the SB ford.

I’m just wondering what kind of mods were done to that mid-80’s corvette head[/color] no ---- Corvettes valvesto get it to work on the SB ford.

[cgarb]

"Lifters were stock ones I converted to limited travel (about 0.012) for a total cost of about 75 cents. (I spun these with a reasonable spring to 8000 - no problem)"

Is there any advice a lad could get on modifying a set of these lifters to limited travel?

[F-BIRD'88]

The motor required for this car was a SB Ford.

I’m just wondering what kind of mods were done to that mid-80’s corvette head to get it to work on the SB ford.

I was thinkin' the same thing.

[BigBro74]

I have often wondered if in some instances it could be an advantage to mix parts and maybe come up with an engine that, while not making best peak, could make a really killer wide power band....... not de tuned exactly- just really decent all over. I remember an engine I did about 15 years ago , that while not exactly a cocktail, was a lot of compromise for silly vacuum and compression and stock intake , 2bbl —..etc , etc. rules(and of course no budget) — I went off the reservation compared to the rest of the crowd on cam choice - the driver loved it and did really well. Other drivers asked me why it was so loud
Heck- maybe I should do it again.....

[The Iron Icon]

The big question here is who would like to try something different with no cost to them other than some labour time? Id think there could be some fun combinations that can be put together. Another question that me and DV have been talking about is what to do with engine after the fact. One option is we sell it with proceeds being divided up to the engine builder/machinest and a charity that the builder and DV could pick.

[peejay]

I have often wondered if in some instances it could be an advantage to mix parts and maybe come up with an engine that, while not making best peak, could make a really killer wide power band....... not de tuned exactly- just really decent all over. I remember an engine I did about 15 years ago , that while not exactly a cocktail, was a lot of compromise for silly vacuum and compression and stock intake , 2bbl —..etc , etc. rules(and of course no budget) — I went off the reservation compared to the rest of the crowd on cam choice - the driver loved it and did really well. Other drivers asked me why it was so loud
Heck- maybe I should do it again.....

There were some motorcycle engines that had staggered engines like that. Center two cylinders tuned for a slightly different powerband than the outer two.

And I've "heard" about top level drag engines built with staggered bore/stroke and everything else.

More down to earth, I've heard of quite a few engine builders who would deliberately drop the compression a little bit on the cylinders that ran the hottest, by mixing and matching the existing parts so that, say, the chamber that had the largest volume or the pistons/rods with the shortest height got sent there if possible.

[dwilliams]

> rare bird

I did a bunch of freshen-ups for some of the local dirt track guys. Most of them were mid-pack runners. But what they brought in...

Engines with three different types of pistons, different rings on the pistons, some holes .030 over, some .040 over, mismatched heads, rockers, different valve sizes, mismatched rods... every single part showing signs of "high speed disassembly" at least once before.

These were running engines, that had been running well enough not to embarrass the drivers.

[hey, if GM can ship "new" engines with one or more oversize pistons, and Ford can do the same with *one* undersize main, and Chrysler used to have special unobtainium oversized lifters, and Oldsmobile had oddball oversized valve stems, an "inventory reduction special" doesn't look nearly as silly...]

[David Vizard]

Now let's be clear on the 'funding' of this project. If we can find a volunteer 'builder' then the time put into it will be paid for when the engine is sold.

Any cash left over will go to a children's charity so all those near new parts that were otherwise unsalable will go to a useful charity.
I think I can get a set of valve covers engraved with 'ST Cocktail Motor'would add to the build desirability. Also we can make the motor a good looking build without upping build costs by much.

Still looking for volunteers.
DV

[GARY C]

Now let's be clear on the 'funding' of this project. If we can find a volunteer 'builder' then the time put into it will be paid for when the engine is sold.

Any cash left over will go to a children's charity so all those near new parts that were otherwise unsalable will go to a useful charity.
I think I can get a set of valve covers engraved with 'ST Cocktail Motor'would add to the build desirability. Also we can make the motor a good looking build without upping build costs by much.

Still looking for volunteers.
DV

Not sure what your trying to do here but considering how hard it is to sell a well thought out floor engine vs a requested customer build makes me think you will have a hard time giving away one with mismatched parts.

[F-BIRD'88]

I think it would be fun to run this engine in a light weight
But deceivingly basic $$$ car $$$ (cheater), for effect.