Assistance needed with TorqueMaster input (calling DV)

[CMIdiesel47448]

I'm building a 408w with AFR 220 Competition 58cc heads a Super Victor 351w EFI intake (29245) manifold, and would like to use TorqueMaster to spec out the cam. This seems very similar to the build David Vizard documented a few years ago, except my geometric compression ratio will be 11.5:1, it is port fuel injected with a 4150 throttle body, and I will not be 87 octane limited. I plan on running 93 and/or E85 as both are readily available. Peak power close to 7000 rpm is expected/desired.

David, or anyone who knows, could you please share your thoughts on what "Induction Length" should be used as an input to TorqueMaster.

Thanks, Damon

P.S. I tried sending a few PMs to DV, but they appear to be stuck in Outbox Purgatory. Is that a "feature" of this board? Sorry for the dumb question, I'm new here...

[Stan Weiss]

I'm building a 408w with AFR 220 Competition 58cc heads a Super Victor 351w EFI intake (29245) manifold, and would like to use TorqueMaster to spec out the cam. This seems very similar to the build David Vizard documented a few years ago, except my geometric compression ratio will be 11.5:1, it is port fuel injected with a 4150 throttle body, and I will not be 87 octane limited. I plan on running 93 and/or E85 as both are readily available. Peak power close to 7000 rpm is expected/desired.

David, or anyone who knows, could you please share your thoughts on what "Induction Length" should be used as an input to TorqueMaster.

Thanks, Damon

P.S. I tried sending a few PMs to DV, but they appear to be stuck in Outbox Purgatory. Is that a "feature" of this board? Sorry for the dumb question, I'm new here...

Damon.
This was answered in the other thread,

Stan

Further to the above, add to the manifold runner length the length of the intake port on the particular head you're using.
I think you'll find though the intake tract part of the program doesn't physically change the cam spec generated. It's more of a tool for determining where a given intake length will make peak torque. It's then a matter of manipulating that length to work with the cam.
At least that's how my free trial version of TM played out.
That, and a great deal of resistance from the resident internet forum experts.

[CMIdiesel47448]

Thanks Stan. I understood the previous comment, but I need to manipulate the cam to work with the runner/port length not the other way around, as those pieces are already fixed. Also, since DV used this for a nearly identical build, I figured he could probably give me the figure he used.

Regards, Damon

I'm building a 408w with AFR 220 Competition 58cc heads a Super Victor 351w EFI intake (29245) manifold, and would like to use TorqueMaster to spec out the cam. This seems very similar to the build David Vizard documented a few years ago, except my geometric compression ratio will be 11.5:1, it is port fuel injected with a 4150 throttle body, and I will not be 87 octane limited. I plan on running 93 and/or E85 as both are readily available. Peak power close to 7000 rpm is expected/desired.

David, or anyone who knows, could you please share your thoughts on what "Induction Length" should be used as an input to TorqueMaster.

Thanks, Damon

P.S. I tried sending a few PMs to DV, but they appear to be stuck in Outbox Purgatory. Is that a "feature" of this board? Sorry for the dumb question, I'm new here...

Damon.
This was answered in the other thread,

Stan

Further to the above, add to the manifold runner length the length of the intake port on the particular head you're using.
I think you'll find though the intake tract part of the program doesn't physically change the cam spec generated. It's more of a tool for determining where a given intake length will make peak torque. It's then a matter of manipulating that length to work with the cam.
At least that's how my free trial version of TM played out.
That, and a great deal of resistance from the resident internet forum experts.

[Bumps440]

just wondering where i can get this program

[CMIdiesel47448]

Scroll down a little in Active Topics to “ TorqueMaster cam program update”, last page...

Thanks, Damon

just wondering where i can get this program

[skinny z]

Thanks Stan. I understood the previous comment, but I need to manipulate the cam to work with the runner/port length not the other way around, as those pieces are already fixed. Also, since DV used this for a nearly identical build, I figured he could probably give me the figure he used.
Regards, Damon

I did some searching on the intake tract length for your build and indeed those numbers don't appear to be easily found. An assumption could be made for the Super Vic having the same dimension for a SBF as it would be for a SBC but that still leaves the port length itself to determine. You could make that measurement yourself but again, it's a game of inches (or fractions of) and an inaccurate assumption or measurement throws the whole works out the window.

One of many things I did with TM was to vary the inputs from what I had to other values and observed how the outputs changed. I gained a little insight into how the program operated. Raising the peak HP RPM output target (as an example) changed a number of values and I could dial in those numbers to match the intake length. But again, having those values (tract length) is what this is about. FWIW I'm fairly certain that a Super Vic and SBC port combine for the default 11.5" value in the data entry box on TM. The again, being a SBC, those things are easier. Not sure if the default is the same for a SBF in TM.

I was in a similar situation with trying to determine the port length for an RPM Air Gap. As it turns out, there really isn't one length but several. So that endeavor came to a dead end.

Maybe this post and yours will help flush out Mr V. It seems he's reemerged and had been posting here regularly. You could always send him a PM or an e-mail. He always appears eager to engage.

[CMIdiesel47448]

Thanks again for the input skinny z, and I agree, not very easy to find. I can estimate length of the 220cc AFR assuming constant CSA, but that will be short by a good bit. The manifold I guess I can go make some measurements, but assume the center ports are going to be somewhat shorter than the outers. I feel like a little guidance from the expert would go a long way here.

Speaking of that, I did try to PM Mr. Vizard a few times, but for some reason they are not being sent.

Regards, Damon

Thanks Stan. I understood the previous comment, but I need to manipulate the cam to work with the runner/port length not the other way around, as those pieces are already fixed. Also, since DV used this for a nearly identical build, I figured he could probably give me the figure he used.
Regards, Damon

I did some searching on the intake tract length for your build and indeed those numbers don't appear to be easily found. An assumption could be made for the Super Vic having the same dimension for a SBF as it would be for a SBC but that still leaves the port length itself to determine. You could make that measurement yourself but again, it's a game of inches (or fractions of) and an inaccurate assumption or measurement throws the whole works out the window.

One of many things I did with TM was to vary the inputs from what I had to other values and observed how the outputs changed. I gained a little insight into how the program operated. Raising the peak HP RPM output target (as an example) changed a number of values and I could dial in those numbers to match the intake length. But again, having those values (tract length) is what this is about. FWIW I'm fairly certain that a Super Vic and SBC port combine for the default 11.5" value in the data entry box on TM. The again, being a SBC, those things are easier. Not sure if the default is the same for a SBF in TM.

I was in a similar situation with trying to determine the port length for an RPM Air Gap. As it turns out, there really isn't one length but several. So that endeavor came to a dead end.

Maybe this post and yours will help flush out Mr V. It seems he's reemerged and had been posting here regularly. You could always send him a PM or an e-mail. He always appears eager to engage.

[Stan Weiss]

P.S. I tried sending a few PMs to DV, but they appear to be stuck in Outbox Purgatory. Is that a "feature" of this board? Sorry for the dumb question, I'm new here...

Damon,
I believe the way this board works is you send a PM and it goes into your Outbox. It will seat in the Outbox until it is read and then moves to Sent Messages.

Stan

[CMIdiesel47448]

Thanks Stan. Non-intuitive, but I can see that is how it works now...

Regards, Damon

P.S. I tried sending a few PMs to DV, but they appear to be stuck in Outbox Purgatory. Is that a "feature" of this board? Sorry for the dumb question, I'm new here...

Damon,
I believe the way this board works is you send a PM and it goes into your Outbox. It will seat in the Outbox until it is read and then moves to Sent Messages.

Stan

[skinny z]

Damon,
I believe the way this board works is you send a PM and it goes into your Outbox. It will seat in the Outbox until it is read and then moves to Sent Messages.

Stan

Well that would explain that. Always wondered how it worked. Now I know.

Kevin

[skinny z]

Hey Damon.
Any PM response from DV?

[CMIdiesel47448]

Nothing so far, but I’m still hoping to get something soon. Glad I haven’t started my 14 day trial yet...

skinny z wrote:
> Hey Damon.
> Any PM response from DV?

[CMIdiesel47448]

9 day later bump..,

[skinny z]

PM sent.