Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

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Elroy
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by Elroy »

2.76 csa at the throat by my math/////interesting port has to be much smaller upstream to be 205cc unless intake surface milled?////most 23 heads in that arena 1206 entrance////big entrance big throat small in the middle??////or is it 205 starting CC.
good conversation to follow
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:34 pm 2.76 csa at the throat by my math/////interesting port has to be much smaller upstream to be 205cc unless intake surface milled?////most 23 heads in that arena 1206 entrance////big entrance big throat small in the middle??////or is it 205 starting CC.
good conversation to follow
2.30in² MIN
62-68cc chamber
1.320 x 2.250 opening
Mr Gasket 5823 (trim)
2.37in² AVG CSA
5.40 port length
205cc runner*
2.08 intake w/30º BC
1.600 exhaust

This IS the port in the photo.

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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:23 pm 2.90csa entrance give or take depending on radius////big on both ends// what are your thoughts on pressure recovery with this? correction big on both ends to be 205 over 5.4
I think all I can do with the PR is try to make it the best possible. I had a Mondello for awhile and all my 23's were wet flowed to death,

I have a 23 degree with a 91.5% throat and a 2.150 valve. The seat is the Minimum. It's 3.00 at the pinch area. Makes great power.

The apex on the 205cc port is .900 off deck.
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:03 pm
SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:23 pm 2.90csa entrance give or take depending on radius////big on both ends// what are your thoughts on pressure recovery with this? correction big on both ends to be 205 over 5.4
I think all I can do with the PR is try to make it the best possible. I had a Mondello for awhile and all my 23's were wet flowed to death,

I have a 23 degree with a 91.5% throat and a 2.150 valve. The seat is the Minimum. It's 3.00 at the pinch area. Makes great power.

The apex on the 205cc port is .900 off deck.
im not seeing your 205 visually////do you have meausrements throughout////i get the average////average makes very skinny middle at 205////correct me if my calcs are errored
I have measurements every 1" at work. I will say this port is wide but not tall. Needs a .350 offset rocker.
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by Elroy »

SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:13 pm
Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:03 pm
SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:49 pm

I think all I can do with the PR is try to make it the best possible. I had a Mondello for awhile and all my 23's were wet flowed to death,

I have a 23 degree with a 91.5% throat and a 2.150 valve. The seat is the Minimum. It's 3.00 at the pinch area. Makes great power.

The apex on the 205cc port is .900 off deck.
im not seeing your 205 visually////do you have meausrements throughout////i get the average////average makes very skinny middle at 205////correct me if my calcs are errored
I have measurements every 1" at work. I will say this port is wide but not tall. Needs a .350 offset rocker.
you have an interesting 205 23 degree to say the least////////missing input but big bell mouth on both ends interesting way to skin the cat in an extreme way////pressure losses but maybe ok in some cases... there is another 205 thread with a more conventional approach/////like said different strokes----bedtime
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:25 pm
SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:13 pm
Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:03 pm
im not seeing your 205 visually////do you have meausrements throughout////i get the average////average makes very skinny middle at 205////correct me if my calcs are errored
I have measurements every 1" at work. I will say this port is wide but not tall. Needs a .350 offset rocker.
you have an interesting 205 23 degree to say the least////////missing input but big bell mouth on both ends interesting way to skin the cat in an extreme way////pressure losses but maybe ok in some cases... there is another 205 thread with a more conventional approach/////like said different strokes----bedtime
There is still more area over the apex than at the front or back. Big huge bowl, but short roof. Place a pitot dead center from front to back and it might change 10 fps all the way down.
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Mark Dalquist's 383 with a set of v2.35PF's (same head as I used). 470hp/500 ft lbs with 9.5:1 and a 215/219 cam. Less than .500 lift.

Mark dyno'd it and Scott Clark tuned it. Here is what he said. "On the engine dyno this is still the most equally balanced air and fuel per cylinder I have ever observed. And I do a lot of engine dyno projects with o2 per cyl. This engine is near perfect except for that damn lifter tick at idle lol"

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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by Elroy »

SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:31 pm
Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:25 pm
SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:13 pm

I have measurements every 1" at work. I will say this port is wide but not tall. Needs a .350 offset rocker.
you have an interesting 205 23 degree to say the least////////missing input but big bell mouth on both ends interesting way to skin the cat in an extreme way////pressure losses but maybe ok in some cases... there is another 205 thread with a more conventional approach/////like said different strokes----bedtime
There is still more area over the apex than at the front or back. Big huge bowl, but short roof. Place a pitot dead center from front to back and it might change 10 fps all the way down.
that makes my visual of 205 over 5.4 even cloudier//////I will chech back in tomorrow////im not seein it//i will do more math in the morning/it dont lie if done correctly as you know/i will turn in before going on a rant
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:42 pm
SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:31 pm
Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:25 pm

you have an interesting 205 23 degree to say the least////////missing input but big bell mouth on both ends interesting way to skin the cat in an extreme way////pressure losses but maybe ok in some cases... there is another 205 thread with a more conventional approach/////like said different strokes----bedtime
There is still more area over the apex than at the front or back. Big huge bowl, but short roof. Place a pitot dead center from front to back and it might change 10 fps all the way down.
that makes my visual of 205 over 5.4 even cloudier//////I will chech back in tomorrow////im not seein it//i will do more math in the morning/it dont lie if done correctly as you know/i will turn in before going on a rant
A stock 195cc ProFiler has 2.25in at the pinch and a 90% 2.08 throat.

My 91.5% throat with stem out is 90% as well. So it's 1.880 or 2.78in

I have two versions of it. Big Chamber (4.125 wide) and Small Chamber (4.060 wide). The small is a 2.055. The big chamber I use a 2.08 but it still has the 2.055 throat size.
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

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Chad what kind of idle?
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by Stan Weiss »

SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:49 pm
Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:34 pm 2.76 csa at the throat by my math/////interesting port has to be much smaller upstream to be 205cc unless intake surface milled?////most 23 heads in that arena 1206 entrance////big entrance big throat small in the middle??////or is it 205 starting CC.
good conversation to follow
2.30in² MIN
62-68cc chamber
1.320 x 2.250 opening
Mr Gasket 5823 (trim)
2.37in² AVG CSA
5.40 port length
205cc runner*

2.08 intake w/30º BC
1.600 exhaust

This IS the port in the photo.
Chad,
I get 2.317 sq in AVG CSA for a 205 cc port that is 5.40" in length

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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Stan Weiss wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:02 pm
SpeierRacingHeads wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:49 pm
Elroy wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:34 pm 2.76 csa at the throat by my math/////interesting port has to be much smaller upstream to be 205cc unless intake surface milled?////most 23 heads in that arena 1206 entrance////big entrance big throat small in the middle??////or is it 205 starting CC.
good conversation to follow
2.30in² MIN
62-68cc chamber
1.320 x 2.250 opening
Mr Gasket 5823 (trim)
2.37in² AVG CSA
5.40 port length
205cc runner*

2.08 intake w/30º BC
1.600 exhaust

This IS the port in the photo.
Chad,
I get 2.317 sq in AVG CSA for a 205 cc port that is 5.40" in length

Stan
Good catch. I have two pages for the head. One for the small and big. Looks like one was 2.32 and one 2.37. I will change it!
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by Elroy »

This head cant be anything close to 205 based on measurements given///heavily milled intake flange or 205 before porting is all that makes sense?/i have layed a few things out in different ways on paper/220 plus cc at least no matter how i figure within reason/what am i not seeing?
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by Elroy »

2.3 choke 2.3 average 2.78 throat 2.9 entry/maybe speier will clarify/
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo

Post by SpeierRacingHeads »

Elroy wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:35 am 2.3 choke 2.3 average 2.78 throat 2.9 entry/maybe speier will clarify/
I guess I could get Darin to chime in and verify it, he used several sets on road race course engines.

How many cc's does the floor wing account for? several.
Last edited by SpeierRacingHeads on Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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