Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
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Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
Thought some might find this interesting. Maybe a discussion with some dyno results. This might not be a perfect A/B test, but the heads were the same and the components.
Basic engine:
4.165 x 3.48
Both LW Scat cranks
Both Mahle pistons
Both 6.000 rods
Same oil pans
Engine 1:
Whitener 1000hp 4150 VP113 fuel
13.50 compression
Vacuum pump w/11.2"
260/268 Solid Roller
.680 at retainers
106 LSA 102 ICL
677@7300 --- 545@5400
Engine 2:
Siebert 750 4150 91 Pump gas
10.50 compression
NO Vacuum pump
231/235 Solid Roller
.550 at retainers
112 LSA 108 ICL
538@6300 --- 508@5000
I know it has holes but it as honest of a test as I could do using same parts. Same dyno..
Head flow and then through manifold/carb .200-1.000.
Basic engine:
4.165 x 3.48
Both LW Scat cranks
Both Mahle pistons
Both 6.000 rods
Same oil pans
Engine 1:
Whitener 1000hp 4150 VP113 fuel
13.50 compression
Vacuum pump w/11.2"
260/268 Solid Roller
.680 at retainers
106 LSA 102 ICL
677@7300 --- 545@5400
Engine 2:
Siebert 750 4150 91 Pump gas
10.50 compression
NO Vacuum pump
231/235 Solid Roller
.550 at retainers
112 LSA 108 ICL
538@6300 --- 508@5000
I know it has holes but it as honest of a test as I could do using same parts. Same dyno..
Head flow and then through manifold/carb .200-1.000.
Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
Thanks for sharing that very interesting comparison. The additional 140 hp from just cam and compression is more than I've have given as a WAG. Suggest a very good head/intake/carb setup to take advantage of the additional lift and duration.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
I’m going to guess the intake manifolds are different?
Different headers for the two tests?
I know the second combo was built for its intended application, but in terms of easy power for dyno comparisons....... it seems like there’s probably 40-50hp on the table with a different cam and possibly a manifold.
Different headers for the two tests?
I know the second combo was built for its intended application, but in terms of easy power for dyno comparisons....... it seems like there’s probably 40-50hp on the table with a different cam and possibly a manifold.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
Engine #1 had a Burr finished 300-110PRH wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:23 pm I’m going to guess the intake manifolds are different?
Different headers for the two tests?
I know the second combo was built for its intended application, but in terms of easy power for dyno comparisons....... it seems like there’s probably 40-50hp on the table with a different cam and possibly a manifold.
Engine #2 had a Burr finished EFI Motown
Same headers
Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
So, for a motor of that size in the 570-600hp range, is one better than the other?
Whichever it is, I would think that one plus a bigger cam should close up that hp gap quite a bit.
I’m just saying the disparity between cams seems like it would be a pretty big player in the power difference.
Whichever it is, I would think that one plus a bigger cam should close up that hp gap quite a bit.
I’m just saying the disparity between cams seems like it would be a pretty big player in the power difference.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
Looks like that head is begging for more lift on the street engine.
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
It was more of a drag engine vs street engine. I'm sure I could have put more cam in engine#2 but it did peak where I wanted it to.PRH wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:00 pm So, for a motor of that size in the 570-600hp range, is one better than the other?
Whichever it is, I would think that one plus a bigger cam should close up that hp gap quite a bit.
I’m just saying the disparity between cams seems like it would be a pretty big player in the power difference.
Another thing is I think they both made good power. When a head works, it works on anything.
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
Yea when I started that project I was trying to package it into the OEM ECU. 6200ish was all the fuel curve it could take. But I switched to a aftermarket ECU but was dedicated to the build.
Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
That street engine is the perfect street engine.........will cruise all day long and you can have real fun with a tap of the foot!! ....well done
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
Thanks. Yea, everyone wants a 7000 rpm street engine. lol I don't get that myself.
Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
I don't either. That's going to be a blast to cruise around.SpeierRacingHeads wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:38 pm Thanks. Yea, everyone wants a 7000 rpm street engine. lol I don't get that myself.
Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
Induction tracts if optimized are very specific////so same tract 2 different applications in this case///which one was closer to right?////interesting discussion could follow///which engine is better for what it is?//Speirracing is it that you think heads should be the same for these 2 engines or is it a self experiment. ms113 fuel is oxy//makes some comparisons harder
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Re: Race engine vs Street engine with same combo
It was a self experiment.Elroy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:51 pm Induction tracts if optimized are very specific////so same tract 2 different applications in this case///which one was closer to right?////interesting discussion could follow///which engine is better for what it is?//Speirracing is it that you think heads should be the same for these 2 engines or is it a self experiment. ms113 fuel is oxy//makes some comparisons harder
I will agree that induction tracts are specific.
A 23 degree is a velocity limited head. IMO, it's all about the back of the port handling the airspeed from the secondary choke being upstream. If that wasn't the case a 260cfm head wouldn't make 680hp on a 358, Super Stock engine with 172cc and 1.90in at the pinch @ 7600.