Flathead chamber design

[Nikolas Ojala]

If those Elco Twin heads are so good, then why production has ended?

[ole4]

Saw this at the Don Gartlis Museum and thought it might be a interesting picture as the Siamese exhaust was discussed earlier in the thread.

flatty exhaust.jpg

[bill jones]

-if that question about why the Elco heads not being produced any longer is directed to me---I really don't have any clue.

-maybe it's because all the old guys who grew up around this flathead era are dead or dying off---and younger people don't care.

[pdq67]

-that story is about a different guy.

-Kenny Kloth lives in SLC Utah area and his race car is this 1949 Mercury sedan--that has ran 150MPH twice---might still have the XF/pro record at 140.551 that we set in 1991 with a single four barrel carburetor

-we had also gotten the XF/galt record up to 147.020 in 1998 right about the same time we ran the two 150mph runs--but we couldn't get two 150's back to back for a 150 record.

-same exact car and engine in both classes----just had more experience and a totally different intake manifold with mechanical fuel injection in 1998.

'49 Mercury & Kenny.jpg

I bet that if he would lose 50, maybe 75 pounds, he would go faster!

pdq67

[PackardV8]

Of interest, the exhausts coming out the ends of the block was the way it was originally designed. Henry, more concerned with cheap, decided the exhaust manifolds would cost too much and didn't fit as well, so he had the outer cylinders moved to the bottom.

[MichaelThompson]

Like this Jack?

[jed]

Bill when u flowed kennys head do u rember what size intake and exhaust valves were
And chamber cc's
Do u have any speculations as to what was going on that u could not puts the valve the other .100.

[pdq67]

Like this Jack?

I learn something new every day!

Didn't know this was done to the old flathead engines exhaust manifolds at one time.

It would have also been better if the center exhaust ports would have came out the top of the block to shorten heat retention due to their long path.

pdq67

[PackardV8]

It would have also been better if the center exhaust ports would have came out the top of the block to shorten heat retention due to their long path. pdq67

The above, plus us recently discussing the large area of the hemi and flatheads made me smile when we tore into this American LaFrance V12. It may have the most unusual combustion chamber I've ever seen on a gas engine.



Originally designed in 1932 by Auburn's Chief Engineer, George Kublin. Lycoming, then a subsidiary of Auburn-Cord-Dusenberg, invested more than $400,000.00 in design, engineering, and development and $600,000.00 in new machinery, tools, dies, buildings ($17,000,000 today). It was produced for only two years before the Great Depression killed luxury car sales. The tooling was sold to American LaFrance, who enlarged and improved the design for another thirty years. The one we're building is one of the last, a 1954 at 527".

This thing weighs a long ton and is huge; difficult to imagine it in something as small as an Auburn speedster:

[MadBill]

Talk about a SIDE valve! (as opposed to the more common 'underhead valve' design...)

[Momus]

It would have also been better if the center exhaust ports would have came out the top of the block to shorten heat retention due to their long path. pdq67

The above, plus us recently discussing the large area of the hemi and flatheads made me smile when we tore into this American LaFrance V12. It may have the most unusual combustion chamber I've ever seen on a gas engine.



Originally designed in 1932 by Auburn's Chief Engineer, George Kublin. Lycoming, then a subsidiary of Auburn-Cord-Dusenberg, invested more than $400,000.00 in design, engineering, and development and $600,000.00 in new machinery, tools, dies, buildings ($17,000,000 today). It was produced for only two years before the Great Depression killed luxury car sales. The tooling was sold to American LaFrance, who enlarged and improved the design for another thirty years. The one we're building is one of the last, a 1954 at 527".

This thing weighs a long ton and is huge; difficult to imagine it in something as small as an Auburn speedster:

What a design. Finger follower valve actuation as opposed to rocker arms. 250 to 300 hp?

[PackardV8]

It is designed as an industrial fire pump engine which may have to run against the governor for hours, sometimes days at a time, so it's not about ultimate horsepower.
3.625" X 4.25" - 527" - 215hp @ 3600 RPM

Further investigation, since it's a "hot-vee" design, it really needs twin turbos and direct injection, with crank triggered ignition to improve on the two 12-cylinder distributors; the second driven off the rear of the gear-driven generator. It reportedly takes a mechanic two days to properly time and road test the ignitions.

Anyway, adding current best science cam/ignition/induction, one might imagine seeing 500hp@4,000 RPMs, but who knows how that combustion chamber would react to 20 PSI boost?

[PackardV8]

duplicate, sorry.

[Kenova]

Anyway, adding current best science cam/ignition/induction, one might imagine seeing 500hp@4,000 RPMs, but who knows how that combustion chamber would react to 20 PSI boost?

I'd buy a ticket for that show!
Where's the popcorn?

Ken

[MichaelThompson]

It would have also been better if the center exhaust ports would have came out the top of the block to shorten heat retention due to their long path. pdq67

The above, plus us recently discussing the large area of the hemi and flatheads made me smile when we tore into this American LaFrance V12. It may have the most unusual combustion chamber I've ever seen on a gas engine.



Originally designed in 1932 by Auburn's Chief Engineer, George Kublin. Lycoming, then a subsidiary of Auburn-Cord-Dusenberg, invested more than $400,000.00 in design, engineering, and development and $600,000.00 in new machinery, tools, dies, buildings ($17,000,000 today). It was produced for only two years before the Great Depression killed luxury car sales. The tooling was sold to American LaFrance, who enlarged and improved the design for another thirty years. The one we're building is one of the last, a 1954 at 527".

This thing weighs a long ton and is huge; difficult to imagine it in something as small as an Auburn speedster:

It occurs to me (admittedly a bit of a stretch) that the intake ports are in the same relationship to the valves as a Y-block Ford.

Have you guys ever scratched your head looking at the stacked intake ports on a Y-block and then thought that the centerline of the big dimension of the port is parallel to the valve seat?

I wonder if there is some merit to that? In most other production V8's the tall port brings flow into a valve that is 90 degrees in a different phase.

Do you guys think that's a "thing" or am I all wet?

Anyhow that V12 looks to have ports in line with the valve seat.