C.I.H. engine

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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by PackardV8 »

I would´t touch the CIH with a long stick! But it's just my opinion..
Agree. More proof racers sometimes have to run what's at hand. My limited exposure to those buzzing little anvil Opels was not impressive. Sort of like the Argentinians racing that other POS, the Kaiser Tornado OHC.
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by peejay »

PackardV8 wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:33 pm
I would´t touch the CIH with a long stick! But it's just my opinion..
Agree. More proof racers sometimes have to run what's at hand. My limited exposure to those buzzing little anvil Opels was not impressive. Sort of like the Argentinians racing that other POS, the Kaiser Tornado OHC.

Another example is the small block Chevy... It has a low camshaft with tiny cam journals, and a super-narrow oil pan with all of the stroke limitation and windage problems that entails, and the port layout is just plain atrocious for making power. And the distributor is at the wrong end of the camshaft! And don't get me started about the head bolts right up against the bores so that they pull and warp them all to hell even if you bore and hone with a deck plate.

But it's popular because everything is made for it because it's popular, and a lot of people have made a lot of money addressing all of the ways in which it wasn't a Ford.

Ford, meanwhile, saw fit to make four or five different engine designs since the introduction of the SBC, and the performance parts they made were "revolutionary" and not "evolutionary", so not very swappable without writing large checks. And everything was always hamstrung by having to make it fit between those damned shock towers.

Chevy did get the last laugh with the LS engine. Thety took everything good about the Fords, added good exhaust ports, and used modern contstruction techniques so they are easy to work on and stay sealed to boot.
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by PackardV8 »

Drifting far off topic, as is our wont here:
peejay wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:21 pm Another example is the small block Chevy... It has a low camshaft with tiny cam journals, and a super-narrow oil pan with all of the stroke limitation and windage problems that entails, and the port layout is just plain atrocious for making power. And the distributor is at the wrong end of the camshaft! And don't get me started about the head bolts right up against the bores so that they pull and warp them all to hell even if you bore and hone with a deck plate.

But it's popular because everything is made for it because it's popular, and a lot of people have made a lot of money addressing all of the ways in which it wasn't a Ford...
As has been said about democracy, "It's the worst form of government, except for all the others." I was there when the SBC came out and even with all it's limitations, it was so much more compact and made so much more horsepower per inch than the other OHV8s, they immediately became obsolete. When Iskenderian put the first SBC on his dyno, he told me he looked around at all the cams for existing OHV8s in the inventory and said, "We'll still have some of these fifty years from now." He's still got some of them sixty-three years later.
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by Ratu »

I've done a bit of searching around and reading (including the links provided here- thanks for those). Seems like the CIH engines were quite successful in motorsports. The four likes to rev. What was the CIH six like?
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by chevyfreak »

Ratu wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:04 am I've done a bit of searching around and reading (including the links provided here- thanks for those). Seems like the CIH engines were quite successful in motorsports. The four likes to rev. What was the CIH six like?
Sixes not bad. Only issue i have is parts sourcing, and then the cost of it. It only had a run of about 6yrs here by us. The 4s had a longer run. Probably about 23yrs.
I have a 2.8 and 3.0. Between those the 3.0 runs better, Same stroke just bore thats bigger. Runs good and have good performance. Made driving the bigger body opels easier compared the same car with a 4cyl unit.
Makes more hp than my essex ford v6 (english essex motor) thats also 3.0.
I have a variety of cars and all different motors. And love my chevy engines but kept the one opel with opel engine.

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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by Ratu »

Hi!

Do the sixs rev out to high rpm as do the fours?
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by chevyfreak »

Ratu wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:25 am Hi!

Do the sixs rev out to high rpm as do the fours?
Multi valve heads revs a bit better.
Both mine is 12valve heads and i dont rev it too high into the red i normally shift here by 5200 rpms.
But as far as i know the 3.0 can go 6000.

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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by Jarmo »

CIH is pretty short stroke engine buy 69.8 mm stroke and 95 mm piston (2.0 4 cyl and 3.0 6 cyl) but stock parts are heavy for a lot of rpm. SBC parts can be used properly modified, rods, springs, valves etc.
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by chevyfreak »

Jarmo wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:26 am CIH is pretty short stroke engine buy 69.8 mm stroke and 95 mm piston (2.0 4 cyl and 3.0 6 cyl) but stock parts are heavy for a lot of rpm. SBC parts can be used properly modified, rods, springs, valves etc.
Some parts yes. Biggest issue we have here is getting oil pumps , timing chain guides and sometimes the timing cover and gasket sets. Its a bit of sourcing all over the place. And if someone can help its on order and 2 to 3 days delivery.
And then rings on the 2.8. Real pain to get , The thickness of the rings is the problem. On the 3.0 its easier to get as you mentioned the same as the 2.0. Plenty of the 1900 and 2.0 came out here. The 2.8 were only availible for 2 years and then replaced with 3.0.

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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by Ratu »

So the 2.8 is a narrow bore version?
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by chevyfreak »

Ratu wrote: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:55 am So the 2.8 is a narrow bore version?
The 2.8 is 92mm bore and 3.0 is at 95mm. Both use the same stroke 69.8mm.
Where the 3.6 were really a stroker version of the 3.0 , had the same 95mm bore but 85mm stroke.


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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by davegt27 »

6cyl Opel CIH short block with DOHC head on top

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYUMjMvj2k

4cyl with the 6cyl head that had the last 2 cyls cut off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5xBiGJFjiU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id4rT3q-Tlk

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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by Kevin Johnson »

Gil: A good source of knowledge. I knew him when he lived in SoCal. https://www.linkedin.com/in/gil-wesson-89789719/
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by Moparboy440 »

A local Manta with 3.6liter 12v CIH 307HP/420nm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSFeoHgudWs
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Re: C.I.H. engine

Post by midnightbluS10 »

peejay wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:21 pm
PackardV8 wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:33 pm
I would´t touch the CIH with a long stick! But it's just my opinion..
Agree. More proof racers sometimes have to run what's at hand. My limited exposure to those buzzing little anvil Opels was not impressive. Sort of like the Argentinians racing that other POS, the Kaiser Tornado OHC.

Another example is the small block Chevy... It has a low camshaft with tiny cam journals, and a super-narrow oil pan with all of the stroke limitation and windage problems that entails, and the port layout is just plain atrocious for making power. And the distributor is at the wrong end of the camshaft! And don't get me started about the head bolts right up against the bores so that they pull and warp them all to hell even if you bore and hone with a deck plate.

But it's popular because everything is made for it because it's popular, and a lot of people have made a lot of money addressing all of the ways in which it wasn't a Ford.

Ford, meanwhile, saw fit to make four or five different engine designs since the introduction of the SBC, and the performance parts they made were "revolutionary" and not "evolutionary", so not very swappable without writing large checks. And everything was always hamstrung by having to make it fit between those damned shock towers.

Chevy did get the last laugh with the LS engine. Thety took everything good about the Fords, added good exhaust ports, and used modern contstruction techniques so they are easy to work on and stay sealed to boot.
You can't really be that narrow-minded. They took everything good about Ford engines? You mean they took everything good about smallblock V8 design? To say Ford only, imo, just shows how you favor Ford over everyone else. Only the 'Ford guys' are the ones that constantly try to make that claim. The LS is just a Ford copy blah blah blah.

Why be so willfully ignorant about the subject? You know as well as I do that they likely designed it using what was best at the time, no matter the manuacturer. I'd put money on the fact that they didn't take a Ford engine or even multiple Ford engines and decide that these are the best ever built.

What you never heard at GM's engineers' desks:


"We should copy FORD! That's exactly what we'll do! We'll build a Ford block, change 1 or 2 things, and call it our own!"


Come on man. Why are you still repeating that bs anyway? It does nothing except cause arguments and show who has blind loyalty to Ford. There is no useful information to be had from that. Unless you call Ford and Chevy guys calling each other homo and telling each other why the other company sucks more "useful information"
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bigjoe1 wrote:By the way, I had a long talk with Harold(Brookshire) last year at the PRI show. We met at the airport and he told me everything he knew about everything.It was a nice visit. JOE SHERMAN RACING
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