Rover aluminum V-8??

[pdq67]

Is the Rover aluminum V-8 still pretty much identical to the little 215" BOP aluminum V-8?

Or did the Brits change a bunch of stuff on it??

And which head are they using?

The Olds or the Buick design? If I remember right, the Olds head had more head-bolts than the Buick(?).

Years and years ago, I had one of each but with all my moving around, they bit the dust.

Sad.

pdq67

[Daniel Jones]

> Is the Rover aluminum V-8 still pretty much identical to the little 215" BOP aluminum V-8?

Not any of the current Rover V8s, if that's what you mean. I think Range Rover used them until around 2004

> Or did the Brits change a bunch of stuff on it??

A number of incremental changes in the 3.5L, 3.9L and 4.2L engines. The 4.0L and 4.6L got bigger changes, including cross-bolted, larger diameter main caps (same as Buick 300), crank snout mounted oil pumps, cast aluminum oil pans, etc.

> And which head are they using?

Buick. Early (pre-SD1) Rover V8s are essentially sand cast versions of the 2 barrel Buick 215 with the dual plane intake modified to accept to side-draft carburetors (SU then Zenith-Strombergs). SD1 versions (as used in the Rover 3500 SD1 and Triumph TR8) got a front timing cover with larger (taller gears) oil pump and the block received some structural reinforcement in the valley area. Several types of fuel injection manifolding. Lots of detail differences like the size of the starter hole, male vs female distributor drive, size of the pilot bushing hole in the crankshaft, front covers, water pumps, mounting of accessories, etc. Later heads are a bit better and have smaller chambers (meant to be used with a thicker composite head gaskets).

> If I remember right, the Olds head had more head-bolts than the Buick(?).

Yes. The Olds 215 had 6 bolts around each cylinder. Buick 215 and earlier Rover had 5 bolts. Buick 300 and later Rover V8s got 4 bolts and it's not uncommon for builders to use 4 bolt heads on 5 bolt blocks or leave out/under-torque the 5th bolt on 5 bolt heads.

> Years and years ago, I had one of each but with all my moving around, they bit the dust.

I'm don't know where you are located but I'm near St. Louis, Missouri and have an excess of Buick, Olds and Rover aluminum V8 parts.

Dan Jones

[PackardV8]

I did quite a few of those back in the day. The porting was too small to make any real horsepower

Now there's an all-aluminum LS, they're even more obsolete.

[frnkeore]

I worked on them, when I was a mechanic, in the '60's. I will always remember doing a valve job and having to install 3 head bolt, helicoils, before I was done. One side twice.

[BCjohnny]

As PackardV8 said the heads are utter junk

There was at least one aftermarket head, but that IMO wasn't much better relative to cost

I've a 'short stroke' 4.6 here at the moment that someone once spent an absolute fortune on, from one of the 'names' over here

The bottom line is that you would probably have to spend maybe four or five times more to get serious percentage gains as with something like an SBC

Hate the things, not even good boat anchors ...... too light

[Daniel Jones]

> There was at least one aftermarket head, but that IMO wasn't much better relative to cost

In the United States, the TA Performance Buick/Rover heads are quite good. They are based upon there Buick V6 heads. I picked up a pair that were unported but assembled and had a local porter do a bit of clean up, working around the existing valve job. Tested at a 28" pressure drop on a SuperFlow 600 flow bench. 1.94" diameter intake and 1.60" exhaust. Intake ports were flowed with a clayed radius around the intake port. No pipe was used on the exhaust. Intake valves had a 30 degree back cut which picked up low lift flow but hurt flow above 0.450" (was 256 CFM @ 0.500" without the back cut.

Inch Int Exh
0.100 078.3 063.8
0.200 129.4 108.5
0.300 185.1 146.7
0.350 206.2 -----
0.400 225.8 177.0
0.500 251.3 189.8
0.600 252.8 199.4

The TA Rover heads out flowed my (previous generation) small block Ford AFR 165 heads which is pretty good. For comparison purposes, I had an unported Rover 4.6L head flowed (1.575" diameter intake, 1.350" exhaust):

Lift Int Exh
0.100 060.2 057.4
0.200 105.4 092.5
0.300 132.4 103.7
0.350 135.5 106.9
0.400 135.5 106.9 (114.8 with pipe stub)

Also, my ported 1964 Buick 300 aluminum cylinder heads (1.775" intake and 1.5" exhaust Buick V6 valves) flowed:

Lift Int Exh
0.100 066 047
0.200 129 104
0.300 174 130
0.350 187 139
0.400 191 146
0.500 196 152
0.550 200 153
0.600 200 153

I also have a pair of ported 3.9L Rover cylinder heads. They had the combustion chambers welded and re-shaped to provide a quench pad and higher compression. They are fitted Ferrea stainless steel SBF valves (1.782" and 1.450" diameter). On the flow bench, they flowed:

Lift Int Exh
0.100 063 051
0.200 128 089
0.300 170 116
0.400 188 128
0.500 190 136

TA Performance and the Wedge Shop also offer hydraulic roller cams for the Buick/Rover aluminum V8s.

> Now there's an all-aluminum LS, they're even more obsolete.

You can bring a Buick 215 in at around 300 lbs which is still quite a bit lighter than an LS. Local British repair shop owner has a lovely MGA with Buick 215.

Dan Jones

[PackardV8]

Hi, Dan,

Despite the corrosion problems and steel bolts pulling the threads out of the aluminum block on disassembly, I still have a fondness for the little guy. Back in the day, we did some BOP swaps into MGs, a four-seat dune buggy and even a Datsun 510; that was a fun little car. However, once aluminum heads became available for the SBF, that became the small car swap of choice. The weight was close, the horsepower was better, the cost to build was half as much and flywheel, bellhousing and transmission availability was much wider and much less expensive.

[frnkeore]

Great info.

Even though I'm a "Die Hard" Ford guy, Even with the thread stripping issue, I kinda liked these engines. Chet Herbert, liked them, twice as much as most. That's Chet Herbert, of Herbert cams. I live about 5 miles from his shop and got to see this car, at his shop.

With ported 300 heads and a 300 crank (~266 CI), I think they would make about the same HP per lb as a SBF and more than a 260.

Did Rover use thread inserts on their engines? Rosan, makes about the best ones, a no harder to install but, MUCH better than Helicoil!

For the Aussie and UK guy's, did anyone ever do a repro of the Repco, SOHC heads, that Jack Brabham used in his F1 car?

BTW, I have a set of Olds heads, in excellent shape, just begging for a new owner. I'll never get arond to putting anything under them.

[Daniel Jones]

> once aluminum heads became available for the SBF, that became the small car swap of choice.

Understood. I've got a rebuilt Ford 5.0L HO EFI with aluminum heads and T-5 5 speed waiting to go into my 1985 Mazda RX-7. I've also got several Rover aluminum V8s including a 5.0L with choice of 5 speeds (GM T-5 and Rover LT77). I'll be using the Grannys Speed Shop swap kit. If there was a similar kit available for the Rover, I'd probably opt for it due to the weight difference. From guys who've done the swap, the Ford isn't much heavier than the rotary but the Rover (with aluminum flywheel and mini-starter, TR8 or Buick transverse mount V6 accessory brackets) is actually lighter.

I've also got an EFI Ford 5.0L with T-5 in a 1983 Volvo 245 station wagon. If I were doing the swap today, I'd go with an aluminum LS and T-56. My Triumph TR8 will keep the Rover V8. It's nose heavy enough as it is. I'd also like to own a TVR some day. Those came with either Rover or Ford V8s.

> Did Rover use thread inserts on their engines?

No.

Dan Jones

[PackardV8]

We've got a Buick 4-bbl complete which needs someone with dreams to give it a good home.

[Daniel Jones]

I've also got a complete set up for an MGB V8 swap that could use a home. 266 cubic inches, Olds 215 block, Buick 300 crank, Eagle 5.7" small journal H-beam rods, Venolia forged pistons, hydraulic roller cam, choice of ported Buick 300 heads (lower compression) or small chamber late Rover heads (higher compression), roller rockers with end stands, oil pan, accessories, cast aluminum valve covers, polished aluminum pulleys, aluminum flywheel, choice of intake manifold (Edelbrock, Huffaker, Offenhauser, Buick) and carburetion, MGB swap headers. Zero miles. I was putting it together for a friend who passed away suddenly.

Dan Jones

[frnkeore]

A quick question.......

Has anyone ever wet sleeved a 215 to 3.8?

Seems like it could be possible, with it's 4.24 bore spacing.

[BCjohnny]

Dan, lots of good info thanks ...... and my post was a little TIC, lol

But .....

To build, say, a 400 bhp NA engine is relatively easy with a SBF ...... alloy heads, manifold etc means the remaining weight of the Ford iron block isn't a deal breaker ..... I've not weighed them but I'd guess the difference would be around 60# or so

I doubt that there have been more than a few dozen genuine 400 bhp NA Rover V8s to ever hit the streets ..... and the cost factor I would imagine would be around a factor of four or so relative to the SBF

Everything you buy for a RV8 is expensive ....... price up some decent pistons, f'rinstance .......

But if you managed to get close to that power figure, you'd most likely run over the guts of a std LT77/R380 gearbox the first time you opened it up in anger

So now you need a T5 out of a TVR, with the Rover bell, and then a fancy clutch, and then .......

I'm not saying a decent RV8 can't be built, it just doesn't make much sense, relative to the other options, unless you have no choice

[PackardV8]

A quick question.......Has anyone ever wet sleeved a 215 to 3.8? Seems like it could be possible, with it's 4.24 bore spacing.

IIRC, Rover had problems with sleeves slipping down, so even less support might not be good science.

[frnkeore]

A quick question.......Has anyone ever wet sleeved a 215 to 3.8? Seems like it could be possible, with it's 4.24 bore spacing.

IIRC, Rover had problems with sleeves slipping down, so even less support might not be good science.

I wasn't thinking about a straight sleeve but, a flanged sleeve. It seems like there is plenty of room for that.