Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

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F-BIRD'88
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Supercharging (especially w/intercooling) is the big equalizer to make a small (300+/-) cid v8 run (outrun) a bigger cid stroker motor on the street.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

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1980RS wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:20 am All the people except for one guy I grew up with those 302's were torque dogs. Never wasted any time on them when a well build 400 SBC could make more power for less.
It all depends on how you want to get there.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

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bpenrod wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:07 pm
1980RS wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:20 am All the people except for one guy I grew up with those 302's were torque dogs. Never wasted any time on them when a well build 400 SBC could make more power for less.
It all depends on how you want to get there.
Yep drop the clutch a 4000 or drop it at 6000 and start shifting! Had a few friends running 11's And a 33 Willys running 10.20 in the early 70's that shifted at 9000. The most impressive car I have ridden in. You see sky in first, second, and third!
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by Little Mouse »

I had a brand new 69 Z/28 burgandy with white stripes white standard interior 3.73 with M21 listed for $3450.00 was 16 at the time folks financed it and i made the 36 months $120.00 a month payments. At would do next to nothing till 4000 rpm then it came on the cam hard. I out ran bigger engine cars with it. would catch them from a roll where there tq advantage did not help them that much they ended up having to short shift there hydraulic cammed cars while mine still pulling. Had my license pulled 4 times by the state of arkansas first time for 6 months. Pulled up to a light a brand new 69 mustang 390 beside me i wasted him with ease. Of course a 390 fe was nothing but a dog engine. To me regardless what size engine you want to build there is nothing worse then limiting them on rpm with a hydraulic anything.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by rustbucket79 »

Paul search Richard Holdner on YouTube, he did a more or less factory stock rebuild on the 302, 327 and 350 hypo’s of that era. It was amazing how similar their output was.

BTW search at your own peril, he only has a bajillion builds and dyno tests, a fella like you could be lost for days..... :mrgreen:
1980RS
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by 1980RS »

Little Mouse wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:05 pm I had a brand new 69 Z/28 burgandy with white stripes white standard interior 3.73 with M21 listed for $3450.00 was 16 at the time folks financed it and i made the 36 months $120.00 a month payments. At would do next to nothing till 4000 rpm then it came on the cam hard. I out ran bigger engine cars with it. would catch them from a roll where there tq advantage did not help them that much they ended up having to short shift there hydraulic cammed cars while mine still pulling. Had my license pulled 4 times by the state of arkansas first time for 6 months. Pulled up to a light a brand new 69 mustang 390 beside me i wasted him with ease. Of course a 390 fe was nothing but a dog engine. To me regardless what size engine you want to build there is nothing worse then limiting them on rpm with a hydraulic anything.
I used to build 350 small blocks that used a 30-30 cam and a well tuned Q-jet and mop the floors with the 302's back in those days. Most guys except one who is now a national NHRA Stocker. All others could not make the little 302 run for crap.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by Little Mouse »

Ya built several bigger inch engines using both the 30/30 cam and 140 cam. So what's your point. Have also seen many a sbc waste bbc back then it is the wininest race engine ever built. Also owned bbc so what's your point that a q jet is an ok carb.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by 1980RS »

Little Mouse wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:35 pm Ya built several bigger inch engines using both the 30/30 cam and 140 cam. So what's your point. Have also seen many a sbc waste bbc back then it is the wininest race engine ever built. Also owned bbc so what's your point that a q jet is an ok carb.
Point was we could outrun the 302's with the 350's for less cost without a lot of the race parts. I'm with you on the SBC out running BBC's sometimes but I have had some darn good BBC's that pulled like fright trains. We have one guy up here who still has his L88 in a '72 Camaro, has never been beat by a SBC it it's hay day and he raced a lot of people.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by Little Mouse »

Weak 7600 rpm street engine.when i worked in the machine shop early 70s me and everyone i knew used factory parts. Shop foreman liked me i could buy any steel crank i wanted or block or heads for $5.00 each. Only money i had to spend was for the common of the day trw forged pistons or solid flat tappet cams. Today is when things cost silly money not back then.
Only the most bucks up racers had parts not factory back then.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by JodyB »

I reckon the big question is; would you build a 8000rpm 302, or a 6000rpm 400 burning 87 octane?
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by rustbucket79 »

I’ll take the 400. Every. Single. Time.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by Little Mouse »

Why stop at 8000 rpm.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by bpenrod »

JodyB wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:39 pm I reckon the big question is; would you build a 8000rpm 302, or a 6000rpm 400 burning 87 octane?
This is the $64K question. It just depends on how you want to get there. Nothing more fun than a high winding small block with a 4-5 speed transmission and a 4.88-5.13 r/p playing on the street or strip. There is no wrong answer.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by bpenrod »

GLHS60 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:50 am Very interesting discussion!

Fascinating to me is the differing 302 philosophies.

Ford guys invested heavily in developing their little 302.

Chevy guys didn't much bother, mostly moving up to 350-400's

Seems like shock towers played a part in many decisions.

But we know the right answer!!

Thanks
Randy
I've never played with Ford's so I don't know much about them, please enlighten me to what the right answer is.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by canuc »

[quote=JodyB post_id=878555 time=<a href="tel:1602470355">1602470355</a> user_id=28868]
I reckon the big question is; would you build a 8000rpm 302, or a 6000rpm 400 burning 87 octane?

[/quote]
This is the $64K question. It just depends on how you want to get there. Nothing more fun than a high winding small block with a 4-5 speed transmission and a 4.88-5.13 r/p playing on the street or strip. There is no wrong answer.
[/quote]. I agree

That would depend if it was a engine for my truck or hot rod Camaro . Hot street Camaro 8500+ 302 with 5.13's (don't forget the scatter shield) . The little small block is going to have a hard time beating a big block strip car with slicks . But most of them in street cars can't get all that torque hooked up . I think guys saying that the 302 was slow (and they were stock) didn't have enough gear in it to get to the hp quick enough . I built one in 78 with the trw 12.5 pistons , stx21 cam , ported angle plug heads with a scorpion intake , 750 dp , 5.13's . Not saying there wasn't a big block somewhere that would of crushed it but I never saw any on the street at that time . For pdq67 no dyno but that one in 78 had to be around 450 hp .
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