Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

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bpenrod
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by bpenrod »

GLHS60 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:46 pm I guess mine was kind of a rhetorical question.

When 302 Chevys were current Ford guys didn't bother with their 302's

Chevy 302's were compared to much larger offerings on the street.

Not counting Boss 302's, Windsor 302's were never really relevant.

But when the Fox body 5.0 came out Ford guys were very happy!

They continually modded them with great success and devotion.

They rarely considered 351's as the shock towers were too tight.

302 parts were continually developed and Ford guys kept buying.

They mostly owned the street car market with their little 5.0's

Chevy guys were mostly stuck with heavier Camaro etc. & 305's

If 1969 Z28 Camaros were still sold it would have been fun!!

I guess the answer is determined by what era one lived in.

Ford guys put more effort in their 5.0L 302's than Chevy guys.

Chevy 302's were scarce but 350-400's were cheap and fit easy.

Thanks
Randy
bpenrod wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:39 am
GLHS60 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:50 am Very interesting discussion!
But we know the right answer!!
I've never played with Ford's so I don't know much about them, please enlighten me to what the right answer is.
Thank you Randy, like I said I don't know a lot about Ford's, nobody I know played with them back then. A friend had a 73 Mach 1 in the late 70's, 351 4V, 4 speed car that was a dog, it was all stock though. My interest has peeked with the 460 though, I bought a couple of them to play with down the road.
novadude
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by novadude »

While the 351 hp quoted above is impressive for 50 yr old tech and only 302 ci, in today's terms, that's not a lot of power. Especially when you consider that you are living with a rumpity-rump cam and 11:1 CR, and a real lack of torque below 3000 rpm.

Consider how much easier (and cheaper) it would be to build a 350 hp 350 ci engine. Vortec heads, 9:1 CR, ~215 @ 0.050 hyd roller cam would likely do it. You could drive it anywhere on 87 octane, and pair it with a set of 3.08 gears. Great manners, good economy. Kind of makes that old engine seem obsolete for anything other than a restoration project.

Better yet, grab a 5.3L LS from a junkyard. A few cans of degreaser, a mild cam (or maybe stock cam?), and you are making the same power as a factory 302 ci. Z/28 engine.
canuc
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by canuc »

Nova heres a news flash for ya , the 302 or 301 as they were first referred to in the fifties were never intended for daily drivers . Of course their only practical for a restoration Z28 , trans-am car or nostalgic hot rod for old guys that enjoy banging a 4 spd with some low gears in the rear . When 283's were everywhere and almost as many 327's a 301-6 build wasn't a lot of money for the grins . Junkyard 5.3 ? get that crap out of here .
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by canuc »

Should of added my first choice for a nostalgic gear banger hotrod would be a 327 but this thread asked about Z/28 engines .
Byron454
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by Byron454 »

speaking about H.P. in the DZ 302 I remember reading the Mark Donohue Biography seeing a dyno sheet for one of the Penske Trans Am
Camaros engines that Traco Engines built and The H.P. was 402 hp. Just for reference.
at probably north of 7800 RPM.
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by canuc »

pdq where did you go ? this was just starting to get fun . hope all is well and your time away from the board means that you have been getting things done in the garage .
your brother from another mother Canuc
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by bigmike »

houser45
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by houser45 »

GLHS60 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:46 pm I guess mine was kind of a rhetorical question.

When 302 Chevys were current Ford guys didn't bother with their 302's

Chevy 302's were compared to much larger offerings on the street.

Not counting Boss 302's, Windsor 302's were never really relevant.

But when the Fox body 5.0 came out Ford guys were very happy!

They continually modded them with great success and devotion.

They rarely considered 351's as the shock towers were too tight.

302 parts were continually developed and Ford guys kept buying.

They mostly owned the street car market with their little 5.0's

Chevy guys were mostly stuck with heavier Camaro etc. & 305's

If 1969 Z28 Camaros were still sold it would have been fun!!

I guess the answer is determined by what era one lived in.

Ford guys put more effort in their 5.0L 302's than Chevy guys.

Chevy 302's were scarce but 350-400's were cheap and fit easy.

Thanks
Randy
bpenrod wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:39 am
GLHS60 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:50 am Very interesting discussion!
But we know the right answer!!
I've never played with Ford's so I don't know much about them, please enlighten me to what the right answer is.
You are leaving out one detail on the fox bodys mopping the floor, until they ran into a Buick gn or turbo regal. Stock boosted Buick would outrun a 5 speed fox body with 4:10 gears, headers, intake. 700.00 worth of mods to the Buick and it was a 12 second animal at 3650 pounds. I think the Chevy stuff progressed so fast to 350 and 383s so fast because of the cost and no durability penalty.

I remember at 16 years old my first vehicle. Even though I was never a big fan of the car itself, I had an 84 sport camaro we pulled the 2.8 v6 and built a budget 355 with a 700r4. Flat tops, zero decked, 993 heads, melling 350hp 327 hyd cam, edelbrock intake, well tuned qjet. It was fun betting on 5.0’s with trick flow heads, cams, bolt ons
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks »

302 Z28s were dogs, I had one with all the supposedly best parts in 1977.
Solid Cam, Smokey intake, 4-speed, 488 gears etc.

My friend with a stock 455 Trans Am automatic beat it with 3 girls in the car and the AC on.
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houser45
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by houser45 »

GLHS60 wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:49 pm You're proving my point ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Chevy guys won't compete with Ford 5.0 guys, cube for cube.

You built up a budget 355 to compete against the pesky Mustangs.

A 302/305/307 would've been impressive for you to mop up the 5.0's.

Buick Turbos were in an entire different (higher) price category.

Plus, 5.0's out sold Buick Turbo's by a very wide margin.

The fact remains:

They mostly owned the street car market with their little 5.0's

Thanks
Randy
Any 300 cubic inch engine feels quick in a 3100 pound car verses a 3450 pound car. The 5.0’s were nothing special. If you tried to push them to 500 hp or even close the blocks split in half. Plenty of turbo Buick’s around my area. And the women wanted to ride in the GN not the fox body with the broken seats,
SchmidtMotorWorks
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by SchmidtMotorWorks »

GLHS60 wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:15 am The real question is how many girls were in the 5.0 that out ran you?

Thanks
Randy
https://youtu.be/JR2eawiyK98

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:19 am 302 Z28s were dogs, I had one with all the supposedly best parts in 1977.
Solid Cam, Smokey intake, 4-speed, 488 gears etc.

My friend with a stock 455 Trans Am automatic beat it with 3 girls in the car and the AC on.
What is "real" about that question?
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Truckedup
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by Truckedup »

SchmidtMotorWorks wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:19 am 302 Z28s were dogs, I had one with all the supposedly best parts in 1977.
Solid Cam, Smokey intake, 4-speed, 488 gears etc.

My friend with a stock 455 Trans Am automatic beat it with 3 girls in the car and the AC on.
Well, your car was a dog that's for sure....A stock T/A no matter what year should just see the tail lights to a Z built like yours.
Motorcycle land speed racing... wearing animal hides and clinging to vibrating oily machines propelled by fire
canuc
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by canuc »

Schmidt I've never seen one of those Smokey manifolds other than in pics , but they supposedly needed some set-up to work . Considering the guy that developed it was close to 500 hp on a 305 with the factory off road cam in 1970 , I don't think you had it right . Not that a 455 T/A even with a few sweeties on board wouldn't be fast either .
Randy you sure the real question isn't whether you were a knuckle dragger like me and never had the honeys riding with us ??? lol
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by vortecpro »

canuc wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:32 pm [quote=JodyB post_id=878555 time=<a href="tel:1602470355">1602470355</a> user_id=28868]
I reckon the big question is; would you build a 8000rpm 302, or a 6000rpm 400 burning 87 octane?
This is the $64K question. It just depends on how you want to get there. Nothing more fun than a high winding small block with a 4-5 speed transmission and a 4.88-5.13 r/p playing on the street or strip. There is no wrong answer.
[/quote]. I agree

That would depend if it was a engine for my truck or hot rod Camaro . Hot street Camaro 8500+ 302 with 5.13's (don't forget the scatter shield) . The little small block is going to have a hard time beating a big block strip car with slicks . But most of them in street cars can't get all that torque hooked up . I think guys saying that the 302 was slow (and they were stock) didn't have enough gear in it to get to the hp quick enough . I built one in 78 with the trw 12.5 pistons , stx21 cam , ported angle plug heads with a scorpion intake , 750 dp , 5.13's . Not saying there wasn't a big block somewhere that would of crushed it but I never saw any on the street at that time . For pdq67 no dyno but that one in 78 had to be around 450 hp .
[/quote]


A 68 Z/28, slapper bars, 15x3.5s 5.38 gears, Jericho, a 302 I like that a LOT :D
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canuc
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Re: Stock and hopped Z-28 engines here..

Post by canuc »

the 67 in the vid looks like fun https://youtu.be/JR2eawiyK98
out of my pay grade even if it was a 69 . nice hole shot , notice the gutless 302 pull down on the high gear change , 125 mph does that make it close to 500 hp ? nice street ride 🤓
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