Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
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Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
There is some logic in having the most forward cylinder as #1.
But do you then go down one bank then the other, or alternate left-right as you make your way to the rearmost cylinder
But do you then go down one bank then the other, or alternate left-right as you make your way to the rearmost cylinder
Ed
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
If we revert back to clock motion, it is inline.
For Ford, it may have come from the fact, that the V8 replaced the inline 4 and because they added another bank of cylinders, they continued on with that second bank.
For Ford, it may have come from the fact, that the V8 replaced the inline 4 and because they added another bank of cylinders, they continued on with that second bank.
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Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
IF the cylinders are numbered as left and right "banks"
the right bank is ALWAYS the primary bank.
I can find no examples of the opposite, so far.
the right bank is ALWAYS the primary bank.
I can find no examples of the opposite, so far.
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
Maybe Henry was dyslexic.
Ken
Over the hill but still learning!
Retaining it is the hard part.
Retaining it is the hard part.
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
I did a little digging on this subject and it turns out that we can blame the Cadillac division of GM in 1914, for numbering the first American V8 cylinders and they were numbered, inline as 2 attached 4 cylinders, 1-4 left bank and right bank.
Cadillac’s firing order was 1L-2R-3L-1R-4L-3R-2L-4R as viewed from the rear and each bank was numbered one through four from the front.
I wasn't able to find the cylinder numbering or firing order of the Antoinette engine though.The first known working V8 engine was designed by Frenchman Leon Levavasseur produced by the his company Antoinette in 1904 for use in aircraft, and the 1914–1935 Cadillac L-Head engine is considered the first automotive V8 engine to be produced in significant quantities.
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
COOL
If they started the firing order with 1left, then that IS opposite of ford.
If they started the firing order with 1left, then that IS opposite of ford.
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
you would sure hope its 1,2 , or at the very least 2,1. on a one cylinder, it had better be 1,1,1,1,1,1,.................. or you have issues.
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
It also, just could be a matter of whether the person that designed it was right or left handed, right.
If you look at it logically, a cyl can't fire, unless it starts at or near BDC. If the engine turns CW and the V is upright, the first cyl that has compression, to fire, will be the one on the right, when viewed form the rear of the engine. A CCW engine would first build compression on the left side.
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
GMH/Holden's 1960's scratch designed small block V8 for the Australian market- RH drive- has the offset forwards to give more room for the steering gear.modok wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:23 am I know it is completely arbitrary and does not actually matter.
But it would be easier for me to remember, if there was any logical reason or interesting story behind it.
I am aware of other engines probably predating the ford V8 that had the front right cylinder #1, for no apparent reason.
It must have been a prior convention to do so.....
I imagined a story of it being the engineers in the the 30's forever reminding us that cars should be right hand drive.
But even if there WAS some prior convention, why would FORD have gone with it?
The more I learn about the life and times of Henry Ford, I think it's more likely he would have done the opposite of convention just out of spite.
You read from left to right, & top to bottom. Even on a blueprint it looks backwards to most people.
What do you think?
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
I JUST googled it....
Henry ford was, in fact, left handed.
Henry ford was, in fact, left handed.
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Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
It's been a bunch of years since I've timed an Intercoursable. I'm thinking that the torsional damper is unbalanced, having a wide section and a narrow section to allow for the unbalance. The narrow section corresponds to the #1 TDC on the timing pointer. Therefore, they time off of #8 so the timing mark on the damper can be wider and easier to see.
If you number odds on one bank, evens on the other bank, starting with #1 as the furthest forward, numbering the rods from front to rear is easy--1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.. To me, this is the logical way to do things. Put another way--if you number the rods in order from front to rear, you wind up with odds on one bank and evens on the other, with #1 on the forward bank.
If you're Pontiac, where odds are on one side, evens on the other, but #1 isn't the furthest forward, numbering the rods front-to-rear is more complex: 2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 5, 8, 7.
If you're Ford, where 1--4 is on one bank, and 5--8 on the other, with #1 furthest forward, again numbering the rods front-to-rear is goofy: 1, 5, 2, 6, 3, 7, 4, 8.
I can't wrap my head around that.frnkeore wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:50 am If you look at it logically, a cyl can't fire, unless it starts at or near BDC. If the engine turns CW and the V is upright, the first cyl that has compression, to fire, will be the one on the right, when viewed form the rear of the engine. A CCW engine would first build compression on the left side.
The "first cylinder to fire" entirely depends on the starting position of the crankshaft. ANY of the cylinders could be the "first to fire" if the starting position of the crank is adjusted to suit.
Am I wrong?
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
My logic says yes.
Firing starts with compression and compression, starts from BDC. #1 has to have compression to fire, right? The right side is the first inline to do that, with CW rotation.
#1, is #1, where would you put it on a radial engine?
Firing starts with compression and compression, starts from BDC. #1 has to have compression to fire, right? The right side is the first inline to do that, with CW rotation.
I suppose you could say that, you could even re-number and re-time the engine, every time it is shut off and re-started, depending on crank position or, you could call #1 where the crank position is, when you put your last piston in and start the timing from there.The "first cylinder to fire" entirely depends on the starting position of the crankshaft. ANY of the cylinders could be the "first to fire" if the starting position of the crank is adjusted to suit.
#1, is #1, where would you put it on a radial engine?
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
The cylinder with the master connecting rod.
Then each cylinder number increases in the direction of rotation
For multi-row radials, use the row closest to the propeller
Ed
Re: Why is the #1 cylinder front right? ford v8
But, Ed, I don't know if that goes along with Schurkey's logic?
I suppose it could be the rod, leading the master, because it gets there first? Or, the rod trailing the master, as it's the one that the master rod brings up first?
You could say the Master Rod is the one that "orders" the others, to do there thing
In V8's, I'm guessing that whether your a Ford or GM guy, is what makes #1, #1 and makes one firing order normal and the other wrong
I suppose it could be the rod, leading the master, because it gets there first? Or, the rod trailing the master, as it's the one that the master rod brings up first?
You could say the Master Rod is the one that "orders" the others, to do there thing
In V8's, I'm guessing that whether your a Ford or GM guy, is what makes #1, #1 and makes one firing order normal and the other wrong