Well they finally did it

[NewbVetteGuy]

So maybe you have a winter engine and a summer engine.
I hope there is a provision to allow improved brakes, tires and suspension.

Nope, only all original...

Any exception for cars that are only used to "occasionally travel to car shows / participate in parades?"

-Just keep an app installed on your phone that let's you pull up the car shows in Belgium, Germany, and the Netherlands and if you get pulled over you're "Definitely on your wait to Carshow X right now"???...


Adam

[Belgian1979]

In germany we have always had the TÜV. Need to check the car every 2 years.

Those guys.. man. IF you want to change/tune up stuff, it has to be era-according, meaning must have been available at the time of production up to max. of 10 years later. So weiand compressor for example is ok, EFI is definitely not for 60s cars.
The ONLY thing they allow to install without problems is disc brakes and seat belts.

On the other hand, you can install EFI, BUT you lose oldtimer status. Meaning you have to pay "normal" , not oltimer, insurance and taxes.
What do you think they take as taxes for 6-10l displacement engines with zero emission control and what do insurance companies take for those 2t cars with 4 non boosted drum brakes and 500 hp?
Tax would be unimaginiably high like several thousands per year, same as insurance, IF they take your car at all..

so everybody wants to keep oldtimer status. I mean it makes sense, this era according stuff. But it comes at the cost of freedom in this hobby..

It makes no difference whether registred as oldtimer or not.
As a result most cars start to drop in prices.

Makes me really hate the EU and my country. Seriously considering buying a property elsewhere and moving out as soon as I'm pensioned.

[Camaromeo]

On the other hand, you can install EFI, BUT you lose oldtimer status. Meaning you have to pay "normal" , not oltimer, insurance and taxes.
What do you think they take as taxes for 6-10l displacement engines with zero emission control and what do insurance companies take for those 2t cars with 4 non boosted drum brakes and 500 hp?
Tax would be unimaginiably high like several thousands per year, same as insurance, IF they take your car at all..

so everybody wants to keep oldtimer status. I mean it makes sense, this era according stuff. But it comes at the cost of freedom in this hobby..

Do you have the exception to the "gas guzzler" / engine displacement taxes for registered "Taxi" vehicles in Germany?

When I lived in Ireland the "gas guzzler" / large engine displacement taxes started at 1.8 liters and up, but the loophole was that registered Taxis don't have to pay the tax. Anyone who wanted a high performance vehicle would just pay to get their car (not themselves as a driver; that was a horrifiic process) registered as a Taxi as it ended up MANY times cheaper than paying the gas guzzler tax.


Adam

As long as you TÜV lets you keep oldtimer status (only parts allowed that were available 10 years after car production date), you pay "historic value" tax and insurance, which is very low. But insurance companies only give you insurance as long as you have a dedicated garage for the car, not allowed to park on the street. But then, insurance is very low, like 100-300€ per year, because they assume you take car of your car and most important: dont drive much during rush ours and rain

[Camaromeo]

In germany we have always had the TÜV. Need to check the car every 2 years.

Those guys.. man. IF you want to change/tune up stuff, it has to be era-according, meaning must have been available at the time of production up to max. of 10 years later. So weiand compressor for example is ok, EFI is definitely not for 60s cars.
The ONLY thing they allow to install without problems is disc brakes and seat belts.

On the other hand, you can install EFI, BUT you lose oldtimer status. Meaning you have to pay "normal" , not oltimer, insurance and taxes.
What do you think they take as taxes for 6-10l displacement engines with zero emission control and what do insurance companies take for those 2t cars with 4 non boosted drum brakes and 500 hp?
Tax would be unimaginiably high like several thousands per year, same as insurance, IF they take your car at all..

so everybody wants to keep oldtimer status. I mean it makes sense, this era according stuff. But it comes at the cost of freedom in this hobby..

It makes no difference whether registred as oldtimer or not.
As a result most cars start to drop in prices.

Makes me really hate the EU and my country. Seriously considering buying a property elsewhere and moving out as soon as I'm pensioned.

No changes at all for any car? where is the line, are current cars allowed to have changes?
What about cars that are 29.9 years old and legally, heavily modified and then turn 30 years old? are they suddenly not allowed anymore, do they have to modify back to factory spec?

Wow what a situation that would be. At least we have the 10 year rule. Well... time to build a stealth sleeper, stock look inside and outside, when you drive, not so much. Can be a nice goal too..

[Belgian1979]

In germany we have always had the TÜV. Need to check the car every 2 years.

Those guys.. man. IF you want to change/tune up stuff, it has to be era-according, meaning must have been available at the time of production up to max. of 10 years later. So weiand compressor for example is ok, EFI is definitely not for 60s cars.
The ONLY thing they allow to install without problems is disc brakes and seat belts.

On the other hand, you can install EFI, BUT you lose oldtimer status. Meaning you have to pay "normal" , not oltimer, insurance and taxes.
What do you think they take as taxes for 6-10l displacement engines with zero emission control and what do insurance companies take for those 2t cars with 4 non boosted drum brakes and 500 hp?
Tax would be unimaginiably high like several thousands per year, same as insurance, IF they take your car at all..

so everybody wants to keep oldtimer status. I mean it makes sense, this era according stuff. But it comes at the cost of freedom in this hobby..

It makes no difference whether registred as oldtimer or not.
As a result most cars start to drop in prices.

Makes me really hate the EU and my country. Seriously considering buying a property elsewhere and moving out as soon as I'm pensioned.

No changes at all for any car? where is the line, are current cars allowed to have changes?
What about cars that are 29.9 years old and legally, heavily modified and then turn 30 years old? are they suddenly not allowed anymore, do they have to modify back to factory spec?

Wow what a situation that would be. At least we have the 10 year rule. Well... time to build a stealth sleeper, stock look inside and outside, when you drive, not so much. Can be a nice goal too..

In the Flemish region there were about 110.000 oldtimers registred. If those ca. 55.000 passed tech inspection (original). The other 55.000 are split about 50/50 with cars that just didn't go to tech inspection and cars that have been flat out refused. Those cannot go on the streets anymore.
So yes, it's mad.

For that reason I've gotten myself a lawyer and went to court. They certainly won't like this action, but I don't give a f*ck.

[Belgian1979]

Very sad day for car enthusiasts in the EU.

Around here creations like this are still allowed!

Not mine, but these can be legally registered and insured.

Thanks
Randy

Couple of examples:

- 67 Camaro which had disc brakes installed with Willwood brakes. Refused
- Honda CRX which had a different shifter than original: refused
- Opel Kadett of the seventies which has a ridgid rear axle: car was lowered (that was allowed) and obviously had a different panhard bar to accomodate it, weber carburettors. Lowering accepted, adjustable panhard refused, webers refused.
- My car: fuel injection on the engine (itb's) refused
- VW Golf Gen 1 convertible: widened body with wider tires, refused.
and so and so on.

Turbo's, blowers, other chairs, different lights, changing from 6V to 12V, stiffer springs, stiffer roll bars, bigger motor, tuned motor, headers, different trans, different rear end, changes to suspension, basically everything... all not allowed.

The f*cking EU is a communist state....

[peejay]

With Biden as President, the US will be right behind you.
Our EPA was already planning on making it illegal to modify any production car for racing purposes. Even if it would never see anything but a track.
When Trump put his people in the EPA, that went away.
Biden's EPA picks will be even more unfriendly to racers, then Obama's EPA. It's al part of "The Green New Deal".

Don't believe that for a minute. Starting from 2019, the EPA has been developing a strategy for preventing people from modifying street cars, putting the liability for "off road use only" parts' sales on distributors. If you sell off road only parts and aren't doing due diligence that the components will not be used on the street (and a pinky-swear check box on an e-commerce site is not enough), your balls will be nailed to the wall. I am fairly sure that neither Obama or Biden were president in 2019.

This will make it much more difficult to prepare/operate a production based racing vehicle, if you race in a class that permits drivetrain modifications. You'd need to find someone who was willing to take the risks of selling components, and then you'd have to prove a negative.

Multipage discussion from last year on another site

[Belgian1979]

I had a couple more projects in the pipeline, but put everything on hold now. Mind you that my oldtimer costs me more than my dd. So in the end the economy is going to suffer. I won't be investing the money in a freaking driving cell phone...I rather bury it in the ground.

[lefty o]

I had a couple more projects in the pipeline, but put everything on hold now. Mind you that my oldtimer costs me more than my dd. So in the end the economy is going to suffer. I won't be investing the money in a freaking driving cell phone...I rather bury it in the ground.

they dont care about the economy, it is about controlling you, the peasant. it is not about the environment, or anything else, just control.

[CamKing]

With Biden as President, the US will be right behind you.
Our EPA was already planning on making it illegal to modify any production car for racing purposes. Even if it would never see anything but a track.
When Trump put his people in the EPA, that went away.
Biden's EPA picks will be even more unfriendly to racers, then Obama's EPA. It's al part of "The Green New Deal".

Don't believe that for a minute. Starting from 2019, the EPA has been developing a strategy for preventing people from modifying street cars, putting the liability for "off road use only" parts' sales on distributors. If you sell off road only parts and aren't doing due diligence that the components will not be used on the street (and a pinky-swear check box on an e-commerce site is not enough), your balls will be nailed to the wall. I am fairly sure that neither Obama or Biden were president in 2019.

This will make it much more difficult to prepare/operate a production based racing vehicle, if you race in a class that permits drivetrain modifications. You'd need to find someone who was willing to take the risks of selling components, and then you'd have to prove a negative.

Multipage discussion from last year on another site

This has nothing to do with "For Off Road use" performance parts.
During the last year of Obama's second term, they were pushing to make it illegal to use any production cars for racing.It had nothing to do with running a modified car on the road. If you modified a production car, for racing only, that was going to be illegal. That's the whole reason SEMA lobbied for the RPM act.
https://www.sema.org/epa-news

[HS Nova]

The gov here implemented tech inspection every 2 years for oldtimers between 30 and 50, every 5 years when older than 50. The sad thing is that all mods are banned. They may only be original.
Right now about 50 % of all oldtimers here are banned from the road as a consequence. Mine included (for the only reason that I have an ITB fuel injection on the engine - rest is original...)

It sure is a victory for the purists.

I really start to hate the EU which is at the basis of this regulation. It has become sort of a communistic regime...

Move to America.

[Camaromeo]

Very sad day for car enthusiasts in the EU.

Around here creations like this are still allowed!

Not mine, but these can be legally registered and insured.

Thanks
Randy

Couple of examples:

- 67 Camaro which had disc brakes installed with Willwood brakes. Refused
- Honda CRX which had a different shifter than original: refused
- Opel Kadett of the seventies which has a ridgid rear axle: car was lowered (that was allowed) and obviously had a different panhard bar to accomodate it, weber carburettors. Lowering accepted, adjustable panhard refused, webers refused.
- My car: fuel injection on the engine (itb's) refused
- VW Golf Gen 1 convertible: widened body with wider tires, refused.
and so and so on.

Turbo's, blowers, other chairs, different lights, changing from 6V to 12V, stiffer springs, stiffer roll bars, bigger motor, tuned motor, headers, different trans, different rear end, changes to suspension, basically everything... all not allowed.

The f*cking EU is a communist state....

Interesting, i got a 67 camaro. It differs from factory pretty much:
- changed from Small block to big block
- rear leaf springs are changed (multi instead of single)
- changed to front disc brakes
- thicker aftermarket front sway bar
- aftermarket mufflers
- non OEM size tires (bigger)
- Edelbrock carburetor
- aftermarket intake
- MSD ignition etc etc etc

Lots of stuff. Most of it was already done when it came here. The TÜV engineer just noted the tire sizes, wanted to know if the engine inside is the one thats officially in the documents (big block) and that was it. He even jokingly wanted to keep it for a weekend "inspection"..
Everything is in perfect working condition, maybe that contributed to his decision to just accept the car as it is.

In my eyes almost everthing regarding non basic cars depends on the guy inspecting it. If he knows cars and old cars especially there wont be much problems.. It unforunately depends on luck, too..

[Belgian1979]

Yes, around here these jackasses think they have to be holier than the pope.

[Ron E]

Belgian, Sorry to hear of this stupid law. And, it all stems from people who don't know how to open their hood without the owner's manual feeling qualified to make laws over cars. These are some of those "feel good" laws that others who don't know how to change their oil support. They're making older cars dirtier, killing off more businesses. Exactly what we've come to expect from the political geniuses everywhere.

[Belgian1979]

The gov here implemented tech inspection every 2 years for oldtimers between 30 and 50, every 5 years when older than 50. The sad thing is that all mods are banned. They may only be original.
Right now about 50 % of all oldtimers here are banned from the road as a consequence. Mine included (for the only reason that I have an ITB fuel injection on the engine - rest is original...)

It sure is a victory for the purists.

I really start to hate the EU which is at the basis of this regulation. It has become sort of a communistic regime...

Move to America.

Don't laugh, I have been contemplating moving/wanting to move out of here. But I'm married, 50 yo and my wife is not in favor of the idea (27 years married) because she's looking forward to our grandchildren.
I think I'm condemned to stick around here.