Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
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Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
So after posting in another section, I caught a lot of flak for wanting to build a vintage SBC for one of my cars. Hopefully this goes better .
If you wanted to build a nice street/strip SBC using only vintage stuff, how would you do it?
If you wanted to build a nice street/strip SBC using only vintage stuff, how would you do it?
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
I would use a 327/365 engine for a beginning ...ClassicRob wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:47 am So after posting in another section, I caught a lot of flak for wanting to build a vintage SBC for one of my cars. Hopefully this goes better .
If you wanted to build a nice street/strip SBC using only vintage stuff, how would you do it?
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
Make it a vintage "stroker" with O.E.M. 400 crank and rods with some clearancing for the piston skirts.Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:48 pmI would use a 327/365 engine for a beginning ...ClassicRob wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:47 am So after posting in another section, I caught a lot of flak for wanting to build a vintage SBC for one of my cars. Hopefully this goes better .
If you wanted to build a nice street/strip SBC using only vintage stuff, how would you do it?
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
Specialty engine building at its finest.
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
What about a 1970 350 LT-1 based engine ??
I believe that Trick Flow make a newer aluminum head that is made to look like the old style SBC heads.Its pretty easy to paint them the same colour as the rest of the engine so no one would ever know the difference.
Use a new tech piston and ring package and have the block machined accordingly to "blueprint" specs.
A modern custom grind cam,either solid flat tappet or roller lifter along with a period correct looking intake,carb and distributor and a good tune.
Shouldnt be too hard to make an honest 450 HP.
Guy
I believe that Trick Flow make a newer aluminum head that is made to look like the old style SBC heads.Its pretty easy to paint them the same colour as the rest of the engine so no one would ever know the difference.
Use a new tech piston and ring package and have the block machined accordingly to "blueprint" specs.
A modern custom grind cam,either solid flat tappet or roller lifter along with a period correct looking intake,carb and distributor and a good tune.
Shouldnt be too hard to make an honest 450 HP.
Guy
'86 Monte SS,513 BBC,AFR heads,Bullet solid roller cam,Doug Nash 4+1 5 speed,Hurst Inline Shifter,Ford 9 inch Rearend.
Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
"Vintage", I would think you are wanting an engine that looks period correct, which could be taken two ways.
Period correct and stock in appearance, or period correct with period performance enhancers. As an example, a period correct 350 would have a points style distributor (or maybe dual points), or aftermarket points type distributor, hei/breaker-less hadn't come out. If you wished it would be acceptable, ( I wouldn't ), to modify it with an aftermarket break-less ignition, though that may still show to a sharp eye with a second wire sneaking into the distributor.
Period correct and stock in appearance, or period correct with period performance enhancers. As an example, a period correct 350 would have a points style distributor (or maybe dual points), or aftermarket points type distributor, hei/breaker-less hadn't come out. If you wished it would be acceptable, ( I wouldn't ), to modify it with an aftermarket break-less ignition, though that may still show to a sharp eye with a second wire sneaking into the distributor.
Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
First, define your terms. Read the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags and the Factory-Appearing Stock Tire rules for some idea of what you're asking.ClassicRob wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:47 am So after posting in another section, I caught a lot of flak for wanting to build a vintage SBC for one of my cars. Hopefully this goes better .
If you wanted to build a nice street/strip SBC using only vintage stuff, how would you do it?
1. Vintage means what? Using only parts produced before what year?
2. Vintage external appearance; therein lies the road to a $125,000 F.A.S.T. build.
3. Vintage, meaning cheap swap meet parts?
4. Vintage, meaning, sorta, kinda, maybe looks like what I'd have built in high school, but with today's technology and 500 horsepower.
Jack Vines
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
I took "Vintage" to mean that all the parts were originally produced for a production vehicle, sold to the general public through regular dealers.
Anything else would open the door for almost any older looking part in the marketplace.
Anything else would open the door for almost any older looking part in the marketplace.
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
For true, Walter. My machinist builds the SBCs and we/he learned to get the definitions down in writing.Walter R. Malik wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:18 am I took "Vintage" to mean that all the parts were originally produced for a production vehicle, sold to the general public through regular dealers.
Anything else would open the door for almost any older looking part in the marketplace.
Some guys want everything correctly date-coded, some just want what's most cost-effective.
Recently one guy had a small journal Chevy II block and wanted a 350" crank installed. We tried to convince him it was possible to dress a 383" so only an anal expert would know it wasn't a late 283". He paid extra for something hardly anyone even knows is there.
My favorite "vintage" guys are the rat-rodders who install a new SBC crate engine and then cover it with Oldsmobile, Studebaker or Mopar rocker covers.
So, bottom line - no estimates or parts until the build sheet is completed and signed.
Jack Vines
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
The OP is getting much the same answers as the 'other' thread that were apparently upsetting.
The 'other' thread's parameters were period correct 70's factory/modified parts for 600hp and 11sec in a 1977 camaro.
I'll say no more.
The 'other' thread's parameters were period correct 70's factory/modified parts for 600hp and 11sec in a 1977 camaro.
I'll say no more.
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
NOBODY has said 600hp. 450 isnt even close to 600. This thread isnt about parts, its about design. I agree it seems redundant but I figured there may be some vintage gurus who frequent here with some more answers. I honestly don't even need the replies here, and would delete it if I could. The other thread has grown and covered many aspects of the build. Thanks
Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
I've considered close to this exact build for an endurance racing engine if I was to go with a 2nd gen Camaro. Slightly toned down perhaps for longevity.GuysMonteSS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:01 am What about a 1970 350 LT-1 based engine ??
I believe that Trick Flow make a newer aluminum head that is made to look like the old style SBC heads.Its pretty easy to paint them the same colour as the rest of the engine so no one would ever know the difference.
Use a new tech piston and ring package and have the block machined accordingly to "blueprint" specs.
A modern custom grind cam,either solid flat tappet or roller lifter along with a period correct looking intake,carb and distributor and a good tune.
Shouldnt be too hard to make an honest 450 HP.
Guy
Holdener dynoed a 100% stock '70 LT-1 and it was around 357hp and 390torque iirc. Nice starting point for something that isn't max effort.
Kinda curious what one would do with just the old school 140 cam and some porting. Old cam has slow ramps to be easier on the valvetrain.
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Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
I really dont think it would need to be toned down for longevity.CastIron wrote: ↑Mon May 03, 2021 4:18 pmI've considered close to this exact build for an endurance racing engine if I was to go with a 2nd gen Camaro. Slightly toned down perhaps for longevity.GuysMonteSS wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:01 am What about a 1970 350 LT-1 based engine ??
I believe that Trick Flow make a newer aluminum head that is made to look like the old style SBC heads.Its pretty easy to paint them the same colour as the rest of the engine so no one would ever know the difference.
Use a new tech piston and ring package and have the block machined accordingly to "blueprint" specs.
A modern custom grind cam,either solid flat tappet or roller lifter along with a period correct looking intake,carb and distributor and a good tune.
Shouldnt be too hard to make an honest 450 HP.
Guy
Holdener dynoed a 100% stock '70 LT-1 and it was around 357hp and 390torque iirc. Nice starting point for something that isn't max effort.
Kinda curious what one would do with just the old school 140 cam and some porting. Old cam has slow ramps to be easier on the valvetrain.
When I said to use a modern grind cam,I was thinking of a grind similar to the stock one.
I bet that someone like Isky,Crane,Crower,Mike Cam King,etc., would have something suitable.
A 2nd gen Camaro would be the perfect car for such a build.
Guy
'86 Monte SS,513 BBC,AFR heads,Bullet solid roller cam,Doug Nash 4+1 5 speed,Hurst Inline Shifter,Ford 9 inch Rearend.
Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
The intake and exhaust lobes of the "140" cam were taken from the Big Block Chev 427 L-88 cam "first design L-88"
(There were quite a few different research and production variations of the 427 L-88 camshaft) Same lobes on a SBC camshaft.
The 140 cam can benefit from increased rocker ratio beyond 1.5:1 to get increased net valve lift and net increased valve open area for more power.
(With suitable valve springs)
The installed position and valve lash can be played with for tuning effect. A custom grind version with a different LSA and or single pattern grind could be tried for (torque)/power band effect. Lots of ways to play.
If more low end torque is desired and/or if your CR is less than the intended 12.5:1 cr, and or if auto trans I suggest trying advancing it some for effect. Advancing the cam decreases intake valve to piston CLEARANCE @ and near TDC . Its up to you to check this on any big duration racey camshaft. Its a big racey cam intended for high rpm power above 4000 rpm and a high compression ratio..
(There were quite a few different research and production variations of the 427 L-88 camshaft) Same lobes on a SBC camshaft.
The 140 cam can benefit from increased rocker ratio beyond 1.5:1 to get increased net valve lift and net increased valve open area for more power.
(With suitable valve springs)
The installed position and valve lash can be played with for tuning effect. A custom grind version with a different LSA and or single pattern grind could be tried for (torque)/power band effect. Lots of ways to play.
If more low end torque is desired and/or if your CR is less than the intended 12.5:1 cr, and or if auto trans I suggest trying advancing it some for effect. Advancing the cam decreases intake valve to piston CLEARANCE @ and near TDC . Its up to you to check this on any big duration racey camshaft. Its a big racey cam intended for high rpm power above 4000 rpm and a high compression ratio..
Re: Best 70’s vintage SBC build.
A few years back I had a 63 nova convertible, I swapped the straight 6 for a basically stock sbc 400 with a very mild cam. I wanted it to look period correct, put old 63 impala Chevrolet script valve covers and an old edelbrock intake with the breather in it.
Old holley 750dp and it ran better than it should have and looked like a 283....
Also converted to 5lug but kept the single master cylinder and bigger 5lug drum brakes.
Was on a budget so drums trumped the disk conversion.
Brakes worked waaayy better than the small 4 lugs so never changed to disk.
Anyways, maybe not period correct, but looked the part and was a blast to drive....
Thanks,
Brent
Old holley 750dp and it ran better than it should have and looked like a 283....
Also converted to 5lug but kept the single master cylinder and bigger 5lug drum brakes.
Was on a budget so drums trumped the disk conversion.
Brakes worked waaayy better than the small 4 lugs so never changed to disk.
Anyways, maybe not period correct, but looked the part and was a blast to drive....
Thanks,
Brent