Volkswagen emissions scandal

[Leftcoaster]

There's little doubt correctly engineered solutions exist - - however Politics decides, and that's driven by Profits

[JohnnyB]

There's little doubt correctly engineered solutions exist - - however Politics decides, and that's driven by Profits

I am thinking "costs" and "profits" are now at the bottom of the list on this little issue now.

[Alan Roehrich]

On both fuel economy and emissions, we've reached the point of diminishing returns with available and viable technology, and in fact, we've long passed that point. At least for those who do not believe in the mythical 100MPG carburetor.

The current technology in use is extremely expensive and fragile. The OE's just eat part of the cost, and pass the rest on to the consumer. That is exactly why VW did what they did. That's also why a light truck that cost $40K ten years ago is now $80K, and is only marginally "cleaner" and "more efficient". So, we're paying double for a a sub 10% improvement. Your government in action.

The automotive "family" (cars, trucks, etc) is much like the gun "family", it is an easily seen target for those looking to "improve" our lives, in order to justify their extremely over paid positions, be they elected or appointed. The third easily seen target is energy, such as coal and natural gas.

The government consistently and continually does more harm than good. Politicians are the only people who seek a job on the basis of "solving" problems that they created themselves with their previous "solution". As far as being correct, they're worse than "climatologists" and meteorologists".

I'm not defending what VW did, it was inexcusable. But people need to know why things like that are done.

[roc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

This funny video shows what it is like.

I'm a lucky guy, I only attend meetings like this a few times per week!

A couple times a week is about right

I would guess i spend 4-8 hours each and every week explaining very very basic things.......last year we implemented a new design control system that left me with nothing that says anything about what the product is supposed to actually do and the meeting went exactly like the video, i thought my head was going to explode a couple times.

That tells me we have something in common, aside being mechanical engineers.

[JohnnyB]

On both fuel economy and emissions, we've reached the point of diminishing returns with available and viable technology, and in fact, we've long passed that point. At least for those who do not believe in the mythical 100MPG carburetor.

The current technology in use is extremely expensive and fragile. The OE's just eat part of the cost, and pass the rest on to the consumer. That is exactly why VW did what they did. That's also why a light truck that cost $40K ten years ago is now $80K, and is only marginally "cleaner" and "more efficient". So, we're paying double for a a sub 10% improvement. Your government in action.

The automotive "family" (cars, trucks, etc) is much like the gun "family", it is an easily seen target for those looking to "improve" our lives, in order to justify their extremely over paid positions, be they elected or appointed. The third easily seen target is energy, such as coal and natural gas.

The government consistently and continually does more harm than good. Politicians are the only people who seek a job on the basis of "solving" problems that they created themselves with their previous "solution". As far as being correct, they're worse than "climatologists" and meteorologists".

I'm not defending what VW did, it was inexcusable. But people need to know why things like that are done.

Yep.



The government consistently and continually does more harm than good. Politicians are the only people who seek a job on the basis of "solving" problems that they created themselves with their previous "solution". As far as being correct, they're worse than "climatologists" and meteorologists".

Climatologists and meteorologists usually have gone to school for a day or two before they get hired on to the job.

Unlike politicians and government workers that require no schooling whatsoever prior to being put on the job.

[John Wallace]

Explain how taking a 1991 vehicle adding an aftermarket head , getting excessive emissions, running very poorly, couldn't complete the test, would be considered 'normal' vehicle?

I didn't see anywhere in those reports in Auckland where the 'vehicle' passed the emission tests for Auckland?
(plus the 1991 vehicle probably didn't have any kind of emissions comparable to what 2004 regulations would require?)

It seemed the report showed that one shouldn't use that aftermarket head on that engine or it would be a piece of sh!t?

[twl]

Maybe a modest proposal ought to be thought about, such as letting VW and other vehicle companies do what they do best, and let us do without the gov't agencies and their interference.

If I were asked whether I'd rather keep VW or the gov't, I'd pick VW.

[Truckedup]

Maybe a modest proposal ought to be thought about, such as letting VW and other vehicle companies do what they do best, and let us do without the gov't agencies and their interference.

If I were asked whether I'd rather keep VW or the gov't, I'd pick VW.

The auto manufacturers left to their own would nothing about emissions just like they did before the clean air laws.... I can't say whether that's good or bad ...

[Alan Roehrich]

The auto manufacturers left to their own would nothing about emissions just like they did before the clean air laws.... I can't say whether that's good or bad ...

The market would dictate what they make and sell, without government intervention. If the market wanted low emissions, then the OE's would sell it.

[ptuomov]

You do realize that since nobody pays for the air that they pollute, individually rational people wouldn't want to be the only ones to voluntarily limit their emissions but could nevertheless welcome a law that would limit everyone's emissions?

The current system sucks, but it's better than nothing. Just to be clear, I could spend a weekend and make the car emissions laws and regulations more effective and efficient by an order of magnitude. So could most people on this site, I suspect. But just because the current regulations suck doesn't mean we'd be better off with nothing. It's the same with the police. I think it's an absolute outrage that the police kill as many civilians as they do every year in the US. However, I'd much rather take the current system than a system with no police at all.

[stealth]

This is easy.... $$$$$$$

It's always about the $$$$$$

And this type of thinking is rewarded on a daily basis... Very few get caught...

I see it everyday..

[roc]

"...The current system sucks, but it's better than nothing..."

This ^

[Rizzle]

You do realize that since nobody pays for the air that they pollute, individually rational people wouldn't want to be the only ones to voluntarily limit their emissions but could nevertheless welcome a law that would limit everyone's emissions?

The current system sucks, but it's better than nothing. Just to be clear, I could spend a weekend and make the car emissions laws and regulations more effective and efficient by an order of magnitude. So could most people on this site, I suspect. But just because the current regulations suck doesn't mean we'd be better off with nothing. It's the same with the police. I think it's an absolute outrage that the police kill as many civilians as they do every year in the US. However, I'd much rather take the current system than a system with no police at all.

Well said.


Our e-tests in Ontario somewhat recently switched from rolling road sniffers to OBD-II check compliance only. They dont even need to fool a sniffer anymore, just tweak the self checks and no-one would know what type of pollutant levels the cars would be spewing out.

[user-23911]

Explain how taking a 1991 vehicle adding an aftermarket head , getting excessive emissions, running very poorly, couldn't complete the test, would be considered 'normal' vehicle?

I didn't see anywhere in those reports in Auckland where the 'vehicle' passed the emission tests for Auckland?
(plus the 1991 vehicle probably didn't have any kind of emissions comparable to what 2004 regulations would require?)

It seemed the report showed that one shouldn't use that aftermarket head on that engine or it would be a piece of sh!t?

NZ doesn't have any emissions tests.
You're not allowed to remove the catalytic converter........that's it.
The majority of vehicles on the road are used imports from Japan. The Japs get rid of them when they fail their local emissions tests, most petrol vehicles that arrive used, they've got fault oxygen sensors.

To me , the test isn't the most scientific one, you'd need to fit the proper head afterwards to make sure the emissions dropped back to where they started, the mechanic could have quite easily made a cockup, like they do frequently over here.

[hoffman900]

The auto manufacturers left to their own would nothing about emissions just like they did before the clean air laws.... I can't say whether that's good or bad ...

The market would dictate what they make and sell, without government intervention. If the market wanted low emissions, then the OE's would sell it.

You should read up on the history of workplace safety, public health, and epidemiology.

Believe me, the government didn't necessarily create regulations just for the hell of it.