Maybe the most technically advanced article I have ever read.
Block pictured in the CV-616 with honing oil all over it but no torque plate, not to mention the condition of the stones in CV hone head, seen better looking in hack shops in back of a NAPA store.
They let a big secret by out divulging what those little holes are in the top of the pistons.
Then this:
"When reciprocating engine parts collide (usually pistons and valves) and a connecting rod or rods explode through the engine walls or the oil pan or both, foreign particles are immediately released into the oil stream—sucked into the oil pump rotors. Rod bearings are often first to disintegrate showering the pump with brass, copper, and aluminum. Seasoned start-line observers will regale you with stories of inexperienced drivers breaking connecting rods at the starting lights and driving the entire length of the track, not knowing the vibration from the engine compartment was signaling terminal distress. If the camshaft can still operate usually the engine will continue to keep running—tearing itself apart all the way!"
Seriously. WTF does all that mean? Here people are quoting this so called article to support their infatuation with aluminum rods and it talks about rods exploding and parts colliding and releasing particles in the oil stream.
Then this:
The chief concern about engine durability is the limited life of the connecting rods and also the condition of the skinny top pistons rings. Life-cycling of these critical parts and others must be strictly observed in the rarified air of Mountain Motor Pro Stock racing.
How does this reinforce all the raving about aluminum rod longevity being close the steel?
How about the "skinny ring" quote. Obviously when they are depicting 5 stage oil pumps, this is ancient stuff. No way in that era they had any ring approaching the .6 mm axial stuff ran today. .6mm running in a Cup engine (which has higher specific output) will run 600 miles and engine will be within 1% Hp after the race.
With all do respect........................THERE'S THAT!^^^^^^^^^^
No one was raving about aluminum longevity! The op asked what the pros of alloy rod has over iron. Mr Kaase who we all respect (or should) says they changed from ti because when the rod lets go it doesn't do a wholesale clean out! Which i represent as they all fatigue including iron and let go. Or the piston kisses a valve and she all goes. So they are reducing the damages with alloy. Seems quite simple to understand to me!
You are basing your opinion on ONE article (maybe 2 of you include the GRP advertising article).
My opinion is based off of facts gained by the racing community, over the last 25 years or so, developing race engines.
This is by no means meant as disrespect towards you, but you are not seeing the whole picture here. The pros and cons have been discussed. There was only one PS team running aluminum rods, and it's because he owns an aluminum rod company. Steel rods are superior, up until the point you need to protect the oil wedge. AKA Pro Mod, Top Fiuel, big power adder stuff. Everything else is all about control and efficiency!
exhaustgases wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:37 am
Al or forged steel alloy rods? Seems like everyone here in this thread or most there told me and pdq67 that we were wrong and these are the best rods, at least that's how I understood it. https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54046
I mearly said that PM technology has came a long way, and can/is being used in many parts in all out race engines. I never mentioned rods, but the process it self.
But what do I know!
With all do respect........................THERE'S THAT!^^^^^^^^^^
No one was raving about aluminum longevity! The op asked what the pros of alloy rod has over iron. Mr Kaase who we all respect (or should) says they changed from ti because when the rod lets go it doesn't do a wholesale clean out! Which i represent as they all fatigue including iron and let go. Or the piston kisses a valve and she all goes. So they are reducing the damages with alloy. Seems quite simple to understand to me!
You are basing your opinion on ONE article (maybe 2 of you include the GRP advertising article).
My opinion is based off of facts gained by the racing community, over the last 25 years or so, developing race engines.
This is by no means meant as disrespect towards you, but you are not seeing the whole picture here. The pros and cons have been discussed. There was only one PS team running aluminum rods, and it's because he owns an aluminum rod company. Steel rods are superior, up until the point you need to protect the oil wedge. AKA Pro Mod, Top Fiuel, big power adder stuff. Everything else is all about control and efficiency!
Warp i only used those examples as did another poster simply to show that yes pro stock is using alloy and that alloy has good qualities that can be used. I have used alloy rods in big inch ford and they exhibited just as good or better service for us. One being quick to rev and two very minimal bearing wear. We also set up with fairly tight quench and never seen the so called rod stretch problem. This was a mid 800 hp motor spinning 7000,so service was excellent in my eyes. I know another couple guys who run in low cube 489 inch hemi dodge and swear buy them. So its not just me. Like alloy blocks alloy rods have their place. I use both and will continue
Steve.k wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:33 am
No one was raving about aluminum longevity! The op asked what the pros of alloy rod has over iron. Mr Kaase who we all respect (or should) says they changed from ti because when the rod lets go it doesn't do a wholesale clean out! Which i represent as they all fatigue including iron and let go. Or the piston kisses a valve and she all goes. So they are reducing the damages with alloy. Seems quite simple to understand to me!
You are basing your opinion on ONE article (maybe 2 of you include the GRP advertising article).
My opinion is based off of facts gained by the racing community, over the last 25 years or so, developing race engines.
This is by no means meant as disrespect towards you, but you are not seeing the whole picture here. The pros and cons have been discussed. There was only one PS team running aluminum rods, and it's because he owns an aluminum rod company. Steel rods are superior, up until the point you need to protect the oil wedge. AKA Pro Mod, Top Fiuel, big power adder stuff. Everything else is all about control and efficiency!
Warp i only used those examples as did another poster simply to show that yes pro stock is using alloy and that alloy has good qualities that can be used. I have used alloy rods in big inch ford and they exhibited just as good or better service for us. One being quick to rev and two very minimal bearing wear. We also set up with fairly tight quench and never seen the so called rod stretch problem. This was a mid 800 hp motor spinning 7000,so service was excellent in my eyes. I know another couple guys who run in low cube 489 inch hemi dodge and swear buy them. So its not just me. Like alloy blocks alloy rods have their place. I use both and will continue
Sorry , Pro Stock doesn't, and hasn't used "alloy" rods in years. There was only one team that did, V Gains, because he owns an aluminum rod company.
But it doesn't matter. I was just trying to teach you, and others here, a little about engine dynamics. And that "alloy" rods in most anything (other than the exceptions I've mentioned earlier) is 90s technology. I've given the reasons for this, but it falls on deaf ears so..................
DrillDawg wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:37 pm
I think there is a romance some guys get just looking at and handling one of those big thick shinny rods, and it's a gangbang with all 8, lol.
PDQ 67....I would love to know what the Pankl rods are made out of, as compared to the Carrillo Pro-Hbeam rod, but i am quite sure we will never know ???? Mark H.
swampbuggy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:20 am
The Pankl STEEL rods used in NASCAR Cup engines....i was told about 2 years ago go for appx. $3,800.00 a set of 8. Current price ????? Mark H.
I don't know what they cost new but my fleabay price was $125.00 and I bought two sets.
I bought them after discussing them with my late friend Jim Watson who worked in the engine shop for Roush. Evidently Roush used Lentz pieces and my Pankl stuff was from RCR.
Jim and I spoke about aluminum rods, too. He didn't have a problem with them for a dirt late model application as I recall.
Honored to be a member of the Luxemburg Speedway Hall of Fame Class of 2019
Warpspeed....does "anybody" know the molecular makeup of a NASCAR Pankl connecting rod ??? And is the MIN. rod journal diameter 1.850" ??? thanks Mark H. A.K.A. Swampbuggy.
swampbuggy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:45 am
Warpspeed....does "anybody" know the molecular makeup of a NASCAR Pankl connecting rod ??? And is the MIN. rod journal diameter 1.850" ??? thanks Mark H. A.K.A. Swampbuggy.
Yes, minimum is 1.1850 rod pin.
No, the material is prepriatory to Pankl, they keep it very secret.
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